Freakin' awesome, Legis.
It is actually a good question whether your speakers are loud enough for the Royal Albert Hall.
Quite a difficult Venue probably. Being quite high above the Orchestra in the cheap seats.
Royal Albert Hall - Wikipedia
I wonder how they do that there?
Certainly for a level sort of venue you stack the drivers:
It is actually a good question whether your speakers are loud enough for the Royal Albert Hall.
Quite a difficult Venue probably. Being quite high above the Orchestra in the cheap seats.
Royal Albert Hall - Wikipedia
I wonder how they do that there?
Certainly for a level sort of venue you stack the drivers:
I have heard these. Bass is something i've never heard before, some people might not like cause it kick your ***. About low end, my current setup is near same qtc but i have +8db boost. I have more infra but otherwise nowhere the same. bass heavy tracks we played were reasonable balanced. 1812 overture with 1.7volt vibrated all over the place.
It's my house of worship where I pay my respects to eternal natural high-Bl gods like the Colossi.
Not the worst square wave performance I have ever witnessed with this Harsch-kind of xo without much phase distortion/phase shift: Square waves - YouTube
The soundcard oscilloscope I used: Soundcard Scope
Not the worst square wave performance I have ever witnessed with this Harsch-kind of xo without much phase distortion/phase shift: Square waves - YouTube
The soundcard oscilloscope I used: Soundcard Scope
I used to get rude PM's from speaker genius Rick Craig of Selah Audio in the US by showing this picture without a credit:
But a thing of staggering loveliness IMO.
Buy 6 of them for your home cinema. Spare the Scan woofers from bass duty and (maybe, because my brother-in-law is a bit vague on technicalities....he pays Swedish* people to do it for him) RAAL ribbon tweeter, and you are close to perfection. My brother-in-law has built 4X 15" Scan woofers into his wall too.
TBH, my friend, I think your sideways drivers are not beyond criticism:
But we always build a MK. II, eh?
But a thing of staggering loveliness IMO.
Buy 6 of them for your home cinema. Spare the Scan woofers from bass duty and (maybe, because my brother-in-law is a bit vague on technicalities....he pays Swedish* people to do it for him) RAAL ribbon tweeter, and you are close to perfection. My brother-in-law has built 4X 15" Scan woofers into his wall too.
TBH, my friend, I think your sideways drivers are not beyond criticism:
But we always build a MK. II, eh?
Last edited:
Here's the Hungarian Yuichi Arai horns prior sanding and wood oil-waxing.
I should buy a equally wonderful amps/pre for these super speakers. Tube electronics despite their positive sides, cut too much infra energy. At least I'm not yet ready to make that sacrifice. Maybe in the future when things settle.
Someone pls drop me a killer recommendation for the amp/pre/integrated. I have been eyeing some chi-fi as a bang for the buck. Dartzeel inspired amps, Accuphase clones, Shanling A3.2 Sanken magic transistor and H2 dominant very cleanly made beauty, Jungson stuff etc. I'm positive there are deals of the decade to be made.
I should buy a equally wonderful amps/pre for these super speakers. Tube electronics despite their positive sides, cut too much infra energy. At least I'm not yet ready to make that sacrifice. Maybe in the future when things settle.
Someone pls drop me a killer recommendation for the amp/pre/integrated
. I have been eyeing some chi-fi as a bang for the buck. Dartzeel inspired amps, Accuphase clones, Shanling A3.2 Sanken magic transistor and H2 dominant very cleanly made beauty, Jungson stuff etc. I'm positive there are deals of the decade to be made.
Legis, if there is a Prize for diyaudio's speaker fanatics, you probably win it!
If I was you I'd get in touch with this forum's other Speaker Genius, Joachim Gerhard:
He's probably looking for a good project right now. Might do it for nothing since I don't think he is short of the odd Euro these days:
I am not too sure I bought this idea.
But a man to be reckoned with:
The Quintessentially German Loudspeaker of the 70th. Modern Interpretation.
Hope it helps.
If I was you I'd get in touch with this forum's other Speaker Genius, Joachim Gerhard:
He's probably looking for a good project right now. Might do it for nothing since I don't think he is short of the odd Euro these days:
I am not too sure I bought this idea.
But a man to be reckoned with:
The Quintessentially German Loudspeaker of the 70th. Modern Interpretation.
Hope it helps.
TBH, my friend, I think your sideways drivers are not beyond criticism:
But we always build a MK. II, eh?
I'm not a huge fan of ribbons, I still have the Raal Lazy Ribbons. They sound nice in the very hf like 7khz and up. But somewhat sterile, and little too "weightless" in the lower freqs imo. But the tonal color or lack thereof is not what offends me, it's the kind of localization effect they have, they don't disappear in many conditions. Also the image shatters to the sides/to radiator at high freqs more than with other types, but this is also a generalization. Have not tried them in a 2-way setup though, could be better.
Slower slope xo's even out the power response near the xo point nicely even when the bands are not ideally matched. Gravesen drives a 8" mid to several khz and crosses over to a 1" be dome, but even that could be ok with 2nd order filters, said a finnish speaker guru kimmosto, the father of the Vituixcad sim software
Considering my background with a very large synergy horns (100cm deep, 80x100cm mouth, 2*15" and a 2" comp feeding it) and large TH's, I'm feeling quite home in front of a large point source-ish direct radiator matrix/array and it's generous directivity at the lower mids/upper bass, even in the middle bass (even low bass considering the walls that reduce the radiation space, effectively flush mounted wall bass, almost full lenght line array, what 1/4Pi?).
They also share quite similar traits in the phase distortion and square wave performance. Colossus being currently 2-way and sealed, is much more time aligned full band though (even if it were 2.5-way).
They also share quite similar traits in the phase distortion and square wave performance. Colossus being currently 2-way and sealed, is much more time aligned full band though (even if it were 2.5-way).
Last edited:
Sicas seem very nice! I like the open and vented chassis, would like to hear them one day. I also considered the 15" 3" vc "K3PL" (copper short ring) Sica when planning the woofers for the bass modules (for like 3 months
Yep, those kind of drivers are the magic. Low moving mass, low loss suspension, balanced sounding (preferably untreated?) paper/mixture cones (I like also the carbon fibre fane also although was sceptical at first
The Sica 15K3PL is indeed an interesting woofer with a rather impressive EPB of 142.86. Your Fane drivers are comparable, apart from the Ferrite magnets.
For less than half the Sica's MSRP, the Fanes are pretty much no-brainers.
Heavily treated (coated) subwoofer cones are unsuitable for midrange reproduction imo. The freq. response and distortion plots may suggest otherwise, but once you start to listen and compare those to a mid woofer with a lighter, uncoated cone (+ decent BL), you'll find the former often sounds muffled, especially > 500 Hz.
Paper-Carbon, or a similar mixture, is used to increase stiffness while keeping Mms low. Some of the better sounding Celestion woofers feature Kevlar loaded paper cones.
Attachments
Well put, those are my exact thoughts.
Both the FC Fanes seem to have some "cheating" in their cone. The 15" has also quite stiff cone (but not fibrous like the 12"), yet very light, and has built-in water protection without coating. But it's not said to be polycellulose either like in some other models, but definitely not pure paper. Both advertise to have "state of the art" cone, and as some said on other forum, it would be unlikely that pure paper cone would receive such a statement.
The 15" Fanes have only 100-110 EBP (not 125) based on my measurements, but the error is systematic and they measure very close to each other. The 12" have EBP at the spec, and also very close tolerance.
Here's the 3rd harmonic comparison between the three Fane models I own (measured approx. a week ago except the Sovereign Pro), measured couple of cm away from the dustcap ("harmonic freq as ref" option turned on in REW). The Sovereign pro is without shorting rings. The copper shorting ring in FC Fanes has quite big effect on the H3/H5 etc. odd harmonics above the system resonance.
For some reason the 15" measures slightly better than the 12" even though they appear to share the (exact) same motor. The 15" also has 0,1ohm lower Re, so it should theoretically be the other way around and favor the 12" slightly, but no. I will measure them again in the future if the burn in could affect this somehow.
(FYI the Sovereign Pro was measured with a tube amp IIRC, so it get's a little help. With pure voltage source/0ohm output impedance the H3 is always slightly higher. The FC Fanes were measured with a pure voltage source, at the same time, with same drive voltage.)
Both the FC Fanes seem to have some "cheating" in their cone. The 15" has also quite stiff cone (but not fibrous like the 12"), yet very light, and has built-in water protection without coating. But it's not said to be polycellulose either like in some other models, but definitely not pure paper. Both advertise to have "state of the art" cone, and as some said on other forum, it would be unlikely that pure paper cone would receive such a statement.
The 15" Fanes have only 100-110 EBP (not 125) based on my measurements, but the error is systematic and they measure very close to each other. The 12" have EBP at the spec, and also very close tolerance.
Here's the 3rd harmonic comparison between the three Fane models I own (measured approx. a week ago except the Sovereign Pro), measured couple of cm away from the dustcap ("harmonic freq as ref" option turned on in REW). The Sovereign pro is without shorting rings. The copper shorting ring in FC Fanes has quite big effect on the H3/H5 etc. odd harmonics above the system resonance.
For some reason the 15" measures slightly better than the 12" even though they appear to share the (exact) same motor. The 15" also has 0,1ohm lower Re, so it should theoretically be the other way around and favor the 12" slightly, but no. I will measure them again in the future if the burn in could affect this somehow.
(FYI the Sovereign Pro was measured with a tube amp IIRC, so it get's a little help. With pure voltage source/0ohm output impedance the H3 is always slightly higher. The FC Fanes were measured with a pure voltage source, at the same time, with same drive voltage.)
Last edited:
What's your take on syngergy horns vs. a direct radiator array like the Colossus?
After hearing some of the more popular Danley products (SH50, SH96-LO, J1-94 Jericho ao.) my feelings are mixed. While these deliver what you expect them to, radiating (projecting?) very clean, point source sound field, I'm not sure if I could live with that particular signature in my room.
Especially the smaller SH50 and 96 are characterized by a somewhat 'cuppy' nature. I couldn't shake the feeling of listening to giant headphones.
Whereas the big J1's look somewhat rudimentary with their sharp edges, overall I think I like these the best.
Perhaps, I prefer some (early) reflections to create the feeling of immersiveness.
Last edited:
Legis, much as I admire your speaker efforts.
Please amend your sig:
This works better for me:
We in Britain love our old Shakespeare, alliteration was just one of his minor talents.
While I was living in Scotland for almost a year I noticed you (/them) like the rhyming word plays even in the newspaper headlines
Life too short for average kick bass, aceing the base in all it's grace should melt your face.
Personally I like them both much. Cannot comment on Danley designs, never heard. The responses look quite rugged in many(?), mine was quite smooth with very simple passive xo.
I choce the easier route because synergy horn is much more hassle to get it right, the throat and injection ports etc. And the waveguide becomes very big, which is not optimal imo for the comp driver, lot's of diffractions that are not easy to control. And it's not as wide bw.
TD4001+Yuichi is more balanced and more "hifi" than the tad was in synergy horn, even though it was also very good and 8+ in balance in it's final state.
The large synergy horn was quite magical in medium-treated room listened from further away if not experienced before because it stayed so clear. The Yuichi horn is not as "long throw"/narrow angle design and cannot project the sound as focused but the big matrix might be something like the synergy was in the lower mids/upped bass. Even better. With some x-ray beam horn in the middle one might get pretty funny magnification glass effects even 5m away from the speaker.
Last edited: