gychang said:
Well, it lines the front of the sloping internal baffle. No idea about Parts Express availablility. I live in the UK so I don't use them. Probably not though. Try a local craft-shop, if there are any in your particular area.
John
Depends how large a box you can stomach. The hempsters are very large enclosures indeed, the Fostex much more acceptable, domestically, if that's an issue. The Hemps will have more LF of course, and possibly a better tone, though unless you have a big room, the differences will probably be marginal. For msot people, I suspect the Fostex will be the better compromise for the moment -at least until the long-awaited 6 1/2in FR Hemp drivers finally arrive.
Andrew
Strange. I'd like to believe the published ones too -you'd think they'd be relatively good for something like Vas, given that it's a rather critical parameter. More than double is a bit excessive, you would think.
BIB using published parameters:
Line length 150in
Zdriver 30in
Sl=109.375in^2
Attachments
If K&T are correct, then it'll still work in the same enclosure, believe it or not. BL drops to ~8.8 from 13.025. The shape of the roll-off chenges, but luckily there's plenty of Vb with these boxes, so it's possible to still get away with it. Not as much LF power, but it should still do the job, and might even be more forgiving regarding placement. I say 'not as much LF power' in relative terms of course -I don't think there are many other FR horn enclosures that can kick out this sort of grunt.
Attachments
John,
Scott pretty much covered it. Hemp-in-the-cone is becoming rapidly known as the Tone King of cone materials. It combines warmth with resolution, and has a very serious mojo factor, immediately recognizeable by any music lover listening to it. The Fostex Sigma line are not slouches at all, and once broken in are highly musical. I prefer no wizzer at all, although some are better at getting it right, "...if ever a whiz ther was..." which discussed at length the matter, in a song in, "The Whizzer of Oz," but as Scott says, there are V2, alternative Q/whizzerless, and also 6.5 inch hemp purportedly forthcoming.
What helps make the 168 a ringer is the fact that it requires a small CSA cabinet to produce a VERY healthy lower register, flat to 38Hz, and right there at 30Hz, whereas the Hemp will require at least a 300in^2 cab. If you have some room to play with, I would say build the Hemps, because bigger is better. Iffin these go into charmed, mixed company, the Fostii, which can be easily veneered to look wonderful. Both are easily driven, and sound great with small tube and digital type amps. Hope this helps abit.
Scott pretty much covered it. Hemp-in-the-cone is becoming rapidly known as the Tone King of cone materials. It combines warmth with resolution, and has a very serious mojo factor, immediately recognizeable by any music lover listening to it. The Fostex Sigma line are not slouches at all, and once broken in are highly musical. I prefer no wizzer at all, although some are better at getting it right, "...if ever a whiz ther was..." which discussed at length the matter, in a song in, "The Whizzer of Oz," but as Scott says, there are V2, alternative Q/whizzerless, and also 6.5 inch hemp purportedly forthcoming.
What helps make the 168 a ringer is the fact that it requires a small CSA cabinet to produce a VERY healthy lower register, flat to 38Hz, and right there at 30Hz, whereas the Hemp will require at least a 300in^2 cab. If you have some room to play with, I would say build the Hemps, because bigger is better. Iffin these go into charmed, mixed company, the Fostii, which can be easily veneered to look wonderful. Both are easily driven, and sound great with small tube and digital type amps. Hope this helps abit.
Greets!
FWIW, subjectively, I've found that larger Vas drivers (bigger cab) sound more 'open' for a given cab alignment (frequency response/Fb) than one optimized for a small cab. There's just that 'something' that makes it sound more 'live'/natural (better impulse response?), so yeah, BiB IMO. I guess it boils down to my 'golden rule' of speaker design of solving an acoustic problem with an acoustic solution as much as practical rather than mechanically with a stiffer spider and/or surround or electrically with various types of EQ.
As always though, YMMV.
GM
FWIW, subjectively, I've found that larger Vas drivers (bigger cab) sound more 'open' for a given cab alignment (frequency response/Fb) than one optimized for a small cab. There's just that 'something' that makes it sound more 'live'/natural (better impulse response?), so yeah, BiB IMO. I guess it boils down to my 'golden rule' of speaker design of solving an acoustic problem with an acoustic solution as much as practical rather than mechanically with a stiffer spider and/or surround or electrically with various types of EQ.
As always though, YMMV.
GM
And a 30ft long lounge. Hi Scott!
Can you please tell us little more about FF225K based BIBs? Mostly how they can handle more comlex music at louder levels with theyr xmax (yes I've heard that it is not so critical with that xmax but still...) and compare this driver for example with some other 8" fullrangers.
Thanks alot Martin
Can you please tell us little more about FF225K based BIBs? Mostly how they can handle more comlex music at louder levels with theyr xmax (yes I've heard that it is not so critical with that xmax but still...) and compare this driver for example with some other 8" fullrangers.
Thanks alot Martin
BIB request
I'm very interested in these cabinets and may build a pair.
As an inexpensive experiment would this-
http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=7514630.7509&pid=1757
discounted fullrange 3" driver from Madisound work in a BIB?
...and if so could you model it?
Thanks.
I'm very interested in these cabinets and may build a pair.
As an inexpensive experiment would this-
http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=7514630.7509&pid=1757
discounted fullrange 3" driver from Madisound work in a BIB?
...and if so could you model it?
Thanks.
They sound massive. Scale is not an issue. When you horn load a driver, Xmax is less of an issue. My 165s share the 0.3mm Xmax and have never sounded strained. To put it in perspective, Simon is a fan of big orchestral pieces, and deliberately picked the 225. Smoother than the 206/7 with a touch more LF extension. Dynamics are about as good as I've heard from an FR driver. As Greg described large boxes above, they sound subjectively very open and effortless. They're wide-range, not FR drivers though, so a nice horn tweeter from about 8KHz up is a good idea.
Thanks Dan and Scott
Dan, you said "the Hemps will require at least a 300in^2 cab", but Jim built a 200in^2 cab
as per Scotts' dims. Do you think you'd be losing much this way? I can argue the case for a
big cab, but not 300in big.
My other problem is going to be plywood. No baltic birch in Oz. Marine ply is no longer
guaranteed to be void free, and is expensive. Quotes from $160-$360 per sheet.
Options are: exterior grade ply, looks ok, but is probably ful lof voids..... or MDF.
Years ago I remember reading about a "trade secret", of sealing MDF with polyester lacquer.
Recently I read that the Gemme Audio Concerti 108, which is built of layered mdf cut on a
CNC machine, has been treated with the poly lacquer to reportedly good results.
Does anyone think this is a viable option? It's certainly a much cheaper one, at $35 a sheet.
Thanks, John.
Dan, you said "the Hemps will require at least a 300in^2 cab", but Jim built a 200in^2 cab
as per Scotts' dims. Do you think you'd be losing much this way? I can argue the case for a
big cab, but not 300in big.
My other problem is going to be plywood. No baltic birch in Oz. Marine ply is no longer
guaranteed to be void free, and is expensive. Quotes from $160-$360 per sheet.
Options are: exterior grade ply, looks ok, but is probably ful lof voids..... or MDF.
Years ago I remember reading about a "trade secret", of sealing MDF with polyester lacquer.
Recently I read that the Gemme Audio Concerti 108, which is built of layered mdf cut on a
CNC machine, has been treated with the poly lacquer to reportedly good results.
Does anyone think this is a viable option? It's certainly a much cheaper one, at $35 a sheet.
Thanks, John.
hemp BIB
Hi John, Take a careful look at the graphs on the BIB site re 200^ in vs 300^in. I'm happy with the 200^ in. In corners bass is powerful and plenty. I had to build mine out of reg. ply because baltic birch here is 5'x5' I don't like MDF but BIB's are so easy to build you could do the MDF and if you like them upgrade later. I have played with visiton B220 and several of the Fostex. The hemp is the best sounding driver I have found to date. Go for it. Jim G.
Hi John, Take a careful look at the graphs on the BIB site re 200^ in vs 300^in. I'm happy with the 200^ in. In corners bass is powerful and plenty. I had to build mine out of reg. ply because baltic birch here is 5'x5' I don't like MDF but BIB's are so easy to build you could do the MDF and if you like them upgrade later. I have played with visiton B220 and several of the Fostex. The hemp is the best sounding driver I have found to date. Go for it. Jim G.
Yeah, Fs is too high to be ideal for this sort of load.
John -I agree with Jim; although I haven't tried it, just compare the graphs of the 200in^2 Hemp to, say, the 168ESigma. I hugely respect the Sig., but in this case, it's going to have to eat dust. Check the SPLs of the two at 30Hz. It's a good 10db higher. Still not small, but if you can live with the cabinet size...
Re the materials, I'd chose MDF over plywood if it's going to be riddled with voids. The main issue people have with it is resonance, so double the front and rear baffles. The sides should be braced well enough thanks to the sloping internal baffle. Line the front of that with a thin layer of cork -worked well with my MDF cabs.
Scott
John -I agree with Jim; although I haven't tried it, just compare the graphs of the 200in^2 Hemp to, say, the 168ESigma. I hugely respect the Sig., but in this case, it's going to have to eat dust. Check the SPLs of the two at 30Hz. It's a good 10db higher. Still not small, but if you can live with the cabinet size...
Re the materials, I'd chose MDF over plywood if it's going to be riddled with voids. The main issue people have with it is resonance, so double the front and rear baffles. The sides should be braced well enough thanks to the sloping internal baffle. Line the front of that with a thin layer of cork -worked well with my MDF cabs.
Scott
If I had the unconditional choice, it would be the Hemp. No question. One listen and you will understand what the buzzz is all about.
I personally have no opinion about the polyester lacquer, but I doubt somehow it would make an audible difference, in a build that size. Hopefully others will have had personal experience.
I personally have no opinion about the polyester lacquer, but I doubt somehow it would make an audible difference, in a build that size. Hopefully others will have had personal experience.
8" Radio Shack drivers
I went bonkers earlier this year and bought a bunch of eight inch radio shack drivers (and a set of Utah drivers. I've only seen BIBs for the 1354. Would someone mind figuring out BIBs for:
40-1286A (specs for revC)
FS - 53Hz
Vas - 1.73 ft^3
Qts - 1.16
Qes - 1.43
Qms - 6.06
40-1044 - no stats on these, purportedly there were stats in a full range driver board on parsimony.net, but, that board no longer exists, and wayback has no record of the message. These have polypropylene cones with whizzer. The box states 40-18k fr, 35W RMS and 89dB sensitivity.
40-1272 - unable to find stats for these, they are ribbed paper speakers with whizzers, with 15W power handling. I currently have them on a four foot by four foot open baffle where they sound really nice.
Thanks!
Tom.
Thanks!
Tom.
I went bonkers earlier this year and bought a bunch of eight inch radio shack drivers (and a set of Utah drivers
. I've only seen BIBs for the 1354. Would someone mind figuring out BIBs for:40-1286A (specs for revC)
FS - 53Hz
Vas - 1.73 ft^3
Qts - 1.16
Qes - 1.43
Qms - 6.06
40-1044 - no stats on these, purportedly there were stats in a full range driver board on parsimony.net, but, that board no longer exists, and wayback has no record of the message. These have polypropylene cones with whizzer. The box states 40-18k fr, 35W RMS and 89dB sensitivity.
40-1272 - unable to find stats for these, they are ribbed paper speakers with whizzers, with 15W power handling. I currently have them on a four foot by four foot open baffle where they sound really nice.
Thanks!
Tom.
Thanks!
Tom.
I'll have a check, see if I can find some parameters for the 1044 and 1272. Without any at all, your guess is as good as mine. Re the 1286A, I'll run a sim in the morning, but the Qt is IMO way too high for this sort of enclosure -these drivers will probably be at their best on open baffles.