I used to think like that, then I engaged my brain one day.Oh, true. However the JBL engineer was a US phono holdout. He's probably right that if one starts in the analog domain, best to stay there
Fine to have a preference. I just can't see why one would tune a DAC to death and then have a crossover that at best matches within +/-1dB between speakers and is very limited on what you can correct without throwing massive power away. Unless you have full range unit and then you have different problems to deal with.Myself, I like the one dac channel per driver approach. Just make it a good dac, and a good power amp, pleaseOf course, not a phono user myself...
I just can't see why one would tune a DAC to death and then have a crossover that at best matches within +/-1dB between speakers and is very limited on what you can correct without throwing massive power away.
I'm fine with good digital crossovers. If someone wants all analog for phono and use of passive crossovers, there can still be further correction applied for digital playback. Yes, some power is sacrificed. The alternative is some data conversion damage to phono. For those that don't hear that particular issue, its no loss for them to go all digital which they would probably be well-advised to do in that case.
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Thank you for all the cross talk, but it leaves me in a position of 'cannot resolve'.
On sine waves I cannot hear any artefacts, but I'm still bemused by what I hear.
I agree with a point about conditioning, something I said on another forum some time ago; sometimes we can reject what is actually more correct because it produces cognitive dissonance.
On sine waves I cannot hear any artefacts, but I'm still bemused by what I hear.
I agree with a point about conditioning, something I said on another forum some time ago; sometimes we can reject what is actually more correct because it produces cognitive dissonance.
In this specific instance, the dog is the one with the higher IQ.
Humor? Don't exaggerate, they are probably equal!
The alternative is some data conversion damage to phono..
That argument only holds for the few misguided individuals that refuse to listen to digital in any form (and forget how many of their precious LPs went through a digital delay line). For the rest of us, especially when unburdened from having to sell anything we can muse over an optimal signal path and go a real step forwards.
I'm fine with good digital crossovers. If someone wants all analog for phono and use of passive crossovers, there can still be further correction applied for digital playback. Yes, some power is sacrificed. The alternative is some data conversion damage to phono. For those that don't hear that particular issue, its no loss for them to go all digital which they would probably be well-advised to do in that case.
There has not been virgin analog since modern times (look ahead cutting lathes).
Yeah, the "modern" ones use a digital delay to the cutting head, but I've heard about using an extra tape head ahead of the usual heads for the move-the-cutting-head-moar signal. This of course also assumes you're mastering (in the old-fashioned sense of the word) from tape.There has not been virgin analog since modern times (look ahead cutting lathes).
Theoretically, sure.
I don't know if its possible to get a dac today that doesn't do that stuff to some small yet slightly audible extent.
With class D amps its getting bit more interesting since Bruno Putzeys started talking about a type of memory-effect-IMD from hysteresis in the iron core output inductor.
How ironic for the Hi-Enders.
Their whole audio dream-chain is full of iron. Microphones, tape heads, phono cartridges, input-output audio transformers, headphone-loudspeaker transducers.
George
Humor? Don't exaggerate, they are probably equal!
Ok. I stand corrected!
How ironic for the Hi-Enders.
Their whole audio dream-chain is full of iron. Microphones, tape heads, phono cartridges, input-output audio transformers, headphone-loudspeaker transducers.
George
What about the claim that ferrite EMI filters cause problems?
I bought about 10 from RS Components and have clamped them around my mains cables and around some of the signal cables (common mode).
I have not measured the increase in inductance but the theory says any HF common mode noise will be attenuated. I might get to do some measurements in the next few weeks once the new phono amp is out of the way.
There has not been virgin analog since modern times (look ahead cutting lathes).
Some mastering houses do still offer an all analogue chain. But does somewhat limit ones choice of music.
What about the claim that ferrite EMI filters cause problems?
I have not measured the increase in inductance but the theory says any HF common mode noise will be attenuated. I might get to do some measurements in the next few weeks once the new phono amp is out of the way.
This may help a bit
Common-mode chokes
(Consider investing less than $50 in a Nano VNA https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=nano+vna&_sacat=0)
George
What about the claim that ferrite EMI filters cause problems?
It depends. IME the particular type of ferrite material and its location in the circuit can make a difference between improving sound quality or making it worse.
That argument only holds for the few misguided individuals that refuse to listen to digital in any form...
Maybe so in your experience. Don't know anyone here who fits your description. People listen to digital, they just don't think its better than the best analog. Best digital is getting closer though.
Also, there are still some collector reissue all-analog phono records made from original master tapes. There is a place in Sebastopol, CA that makes them, for example.
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You cannot seriously believe that?People listen to digital, they just don't think its better than the best analog. Best digital is getting closer though.
Fools and money are indeed soon parted. Electric recording company at least give you some authenticity for your $300 reissue.Also, there are still some collector reissue all-analog phono records made from original master tapes. There is a place in Sebastopol, CA that makes them, for example.
You cannot seriously believe that?
I don't hear it myself, not sure what they are listening for. Don't have a phono here and haven't listened to someone else's long enough to figure it out.
Fools and money are indeed soon parted. Electric recording company at least give you some authenticity for your $300 reissue.
Oh, not necessarily... can't talk about any specials...
In any case some people buy them, listen to some, and for some others hold them awhile unused then sell them for whatever the market is a few years later. It can pay for the ones kept making those effectively very low cost or possibly even free. Capitalism at work, you know.
and for some others hold them awhile unused then sell them for whatever the market is a few years later. It can pay for the ones kept making those effectively very low cost or possibly even free. Capitalism at work, you know.
There are much better investments. And future value is not measure of either muscial worth or quality. Rudy Van Gelder hated vinyl and did transfer a lot of back catalogue to digital yet the blue note vinyl releases in mint form sell for silly money. Funny old world.
The M2s are at my house right now. The big Sound Lab electrostats also here kill the M2s (slight exaggeration, but I don't want to overuse the word 'better'). That's with the M2s on analog power amps. Using the Crown class D amps it isn't even a fair fight, the M2s lose badly.
Note: Very possible the JBL M2-approved Crown amps Richard ended up with aren't the finest sounding class D amps Crown ever made. They are I-Tech 5000, original version.
After reading way too many of your posts repeating ad nauseum your dac arguements, I believe the people at the M2 vs Salon comparison. I dont believe your claims of super hearing. So I donr believe any of your other claims.
Also, there are still some collector reissue all-analog phono records made from original master tapes. There is a place in Sebastopol, CA that makes them, for example.
And Im sure those 40 year old tapes are in great shape, not. But then with all the noise and distortions of vinyl you probably cant tell.
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