The WMTMW is something that I looked into as well. They had a slightly bigger footprint though. Plus my girlfriend wasn't as charmed with those as I was. She has accepted my current arrays. That was quite an achievement for me 
. She is glad they are black now, she likes them better now, in black/chrome look, than the way they were before with the wood grain.
. She is glad they are black now, she likes them better now, in black/chrome look, than the way they were before with the wood grain.
Yes, I've built a number of Line Arrays for use in PA work. As far as HI FI use, check out my article in the MAY 2008 issue of Audio Xpress. When I was Shure many years ago we had a product called the Vocal Master that incorporated a line array. I'm not belittling his project. It demonstrates first rate engineering and design and with proper care with EQ may produce some listenable sound.
Rather more than 'some listenable sound' one suspects, given that it is essentially a functional clone of the extremely successful and highly rated arrays designed by Roger Russell (check out his articles in AudioXpress Nov. 2005 & July 2006, plus his website of course), albeit using the paper cone 3 1/2in Vifa rather than the fiberglass coned model.
You build all of these? Speaker Gallery
Looks like you had fun building all those different versions. I know I am enjoying my build.
To address the recent comments... I'm pretty confident I'll get good sound out of these. I (obviously) took my queues from prior line array builds from around the 2005/2006 area. Researched all I could find on all different types available like the Pipe Dreams, the big Genesis speakers, of course the Jim Griffin papers, the CBT and Scaena line arrays and many, many more. (Gryphon Pendragon, Adyton Imagic, member builds here like the CVSR3 from member bear built in 1976
..)And starting with all those variations in mind, coupled with some influences from other projects and speakers, I made plans of what I wanted to have and how I could create my vision on that line array theme. That resulted in this build. It was a form follows function approach that to my eyes works well visually.
DSP is easy nowadays and I can tailor it to my own needs. Be it parametric or FIR based, linear phase or minimum phase, due to the use of a computer it is available at will. Heart of the music server is JRiver Media Player. If I need it I'll add plugins to that to get what I want/need. As an Application and System administrator in IT for most of my career that part is easy, I could even write my own if I had to. That part is covered, calibrated mic etc. is also available.
I think being able to tailor it to your needs will always be superior to a pre-determined EQ setting. On the other hand, you need to know what to aim for
.I've been studying this since somewhere in 2010 and reading all I could find on the subject. I still have a lot more plans available for future tests etc.
Looking forward to that part actually. I could have been as far as I am now a year ago but things went a little different. Hope to be able to run the first sound tests somewhere next month and go from there.
As everything in this project, I'll take my time to do it right. If I end up unsatisfied with the sound it won't be from lack of trying, that's for sure
.You may have noticed I don't quit that easy.
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Dang, that's some cool stuff KLBIrd. Looks like you have experimented with the LA concept quite a bit more than you even hinted at.
I think wesayso deserves an award for just getting these approved by his gf, not to mention building them. Since it was the only way to get a large format design to pass muster, it's already a win, right?
Different formats of speakers all have their quirks.
I was thinking it might be fun to try something a little more subtle than power tapering with these, speaking of digital eq. Perhaps a multi channel eq could be used to dial in a little HF boost to the center 5 drivers, and conversely a bit of treble cut to the outer driver groups?
Another fun thing to try would be a calculated delay akin to the ESL-63, to make a virtual point source. Should be doable with modern tech. Though this would kill the line array characteristics for the most part, it might be worth it.
Looks like you have experimented with the LA concept quite a bit more than you even hinted at. I think wesayso deserves an award for just getting these approved by his gf, not to mention building them. Since it was the only way to get a large format design to pass muster, it's already a win, right?
Different formats of speakers all have their quirks.
I was thinking it might be fun to try something a little more subtle than power tapering with these, speaking of digital eq. Perhaps a multi channel eq could be used to dial in a little HF boost to the center 5 drivers, and conversely a bit of treble cut to the outer driver groups?
Another fun thing to try would be a calculated delay akin to the ESL-63, to make a virtual point source. Should be doable with modern tech. Though this would kill the line array characteristics for the most part, it might be worth it.
Line arrays have been around in the commercial arena for decades, and like transmission lines, are one of the areas that offers the DIY community a license to experiment in.
The only draw back is the increased cost of multiple drivers and the need to address combing and EQ. That is the fun of the hobby and WESAYSO's project has been one of the most interesting to follow on the forum. There are few of us who would have persevered with the material failures experienced in the early stages of the project. Hopefully we will soon see some good performance data on the entire system.
He certainly deserves an industrial design award.
The only draw back is the increased cost of multiple drivers and the need to address combing and EQ. That is the fun of the hobby and WESAYSO's project has been one of the most interesting to follow on the forum. There are few of us who would have persevered with the material failures experienced in the early stages of the project. Hopefully we will soon see some good performance data on the entire system.
He certainly deserves an industrial design award.
Preparing the mass loaded vinyl gaskets:
A tough job cutting the 3.2 mm gaskets by hand. Taking a bit longer than I expected.
I will glue these to the baffle. Not done cutting yet. After glueing them on I'll redrill the mounting holes.
The other side of this baffle will get a gasket too, around the driver baskets. The mounting holes are much
bigger (9 mm) than the bolts (M6) and in theory they won't touch the back baffle. That way the baffle "floats"
between the front baffle and the enclosure in rubber.
By the way, this kind of rubber weighs 8 kg/m² (!) Not bad for 3.2 mm thickness.
A tough job cutting the 3.2 mm gaskets by hand. Taking a bit longer than I expected.
I will glue these to the baffle. Not done cutting yet. After glueing them on I'll redrill the mounting holes.
The other side of this baffle will get a gasket too, around the driver baskets. The mounting holes are much
bigger (9 mm) than the bolts (M6) and in theory they won't touch the back baffle. That way the baffle "floats"
between the front baffle and the enclosure in rubber.
By the way, this kind of rubber weighs 8 kg/m² (!) Not bad for 3.2 mm thickness.
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Isomat TS
Bestel Isomat TS geluidsisolatiematten direct online op Akoestiekwinkel.nl!
Very good sound dampener. They have an even heavier version Isomat KE But that
one is rougher so not as good as a gasket material.
I have the Isomat TS as sound barrier in the doors of my car...
With cld tiles on the door metal (holes covered with sheet aluminum underneath the cld):
Between the door card and the CLD is a maze of open cell foam strip (not shown)
All of that because the doors are the enclosure of my mid bass speakers...
Bestel Isomat TS geluidsisolatiematten direct online op Akoestiekwinkel.nl!
Very good sound dampener. They have an even heavier version Isomat KE But that
one is rougher so not as good as a gasket material.
I have the Isomat TS as sound barrier in the doors of my car...
With cld tiles on the door metal (holes covered with sheet aluminum underneath the cld):
Between the door card and the CLD is a maze of open cell foam strip (not shown)
All of that because the doors are the enclosure of my mid bass speakers...
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This is for later, when you are ready for sound.
I know many often cite JRiver as their favorite media player, but...
I just did a back to back listening session with JRiver and Audirvana. I used the same audio interface for both, and same settings, same speakers. It was night and day.
I have this orchestral track that includes lots of violins that is a killer on bad systems. On not so great setups, the violins sound like this melted goo of noise, syrupy and unlistenable. That was JRiver. It was horrible handling that track. I wanted to cringe.
I switched to Audirvana and finally, that was music. I could hear the strings and the bows striking each other, along with the nice vibratos.
Since you seem to be on PC, may I suggest foobar2000?
Keep JRiver for movies, but use something better for music. And let those arrays sing!
I have a Presonus 1818vsl interface. I tried adding a plugin from fabfilter, proEQ, very nice and clean EQ when used on a track with a DAW, FabFilter Pro-Q 2 - Equalizer Plug-In , but it degraded the sound even more. Something was muffling the sound when I used the EQ with everything set flat... and it's not the fabfilter EQ, having used it many times before, it is a very clean EQ. I was really not impressed at all. Plus, using VSTs kept crashing JRiver.
Yes, JRiver has lots of promises, bells and whistles, but I feel it falls short in the music quality department.
Yes, JRiver has lots of promises, bells and whistles, but I feel it falls short in the music quality department.
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I meant the sound path, usually one can choose between ASIO, WASAPI or Direct Sound.
I can use it with my Asus Sonar ST or my Musical Fidelity M1 DAC as the interface.
I have experienced some crashes with initializing VST plugins but usually got them to work fine. It hasn't crashed on me in ages. I use a VST host, Metaplugin and can add as many VST's as I want in that host program.
Here's the sound path I mentioned (Musical Fidelity DAC not connected)
If you have Direct Sound as the source I can imagine a degration, but not with WASAPI or ASIO.
With Direct Sound as the throughput Windows is still messing with the output. Any program that bypasses that would have the opportunity to sound more clear.
You can check the sound path by hovering over the circled button:
Ideally it should say: (direct connection) as in this example with a high res audio file.
The delay and level changes are to compensate for my current speaker placement.
That gives me at least a stereo image despite the placement.
I can use it with my Asus Sonar ST or my Musical Fidelity M1 DAC as the interface.
I have experienced some crashes with initializing VST plugins but usually got them to work fine. It hasn't crashed on me in ages. I use a VST host, Metaplugin and can add as many VST's as I want in that host program.
Here's the sound path I mentioned (Musical Fidelity DAC not connected)
If you have Direct Sound as the source I can imagine a degration, but not with WASAPI or ASIO.
With Direct Sound as the throughput Windows is still messing with the output. Any program that bypasses that would have the opportunity to sound more clear.
You can check the sound path by hovering over the circled button:
Ideally it should say: (direct connection) as in this example with a high res audio file.
The delay and level changes are to compensate for my current speaker placement.
That gives me at least a stereo image despite the placement.
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To make it clear, I don't think Foobar would sound any better or worse when set up right. But I like that JRiver gives me all the EQ I could want and use that for both audio and video playback. That comes in handy to use my arrays for movies. I could setup extra channels at will and determine what gets sent there or just play surround etc. At this moment I play stereo only but I am thinking of some experiments later on (like adding 3 or so subs or ambience channels). I have 8 channels available trough the Sonar ST.
With android remote control as a bonus plus I can stream audio and video to any device as well. It is a well thought out program if you ask me. I don't always upgrade, right now I'm running a version behind (I think), I went from V17 (initial purchase) to V19.
Don't know what went wrong with your experiment, but I'm sure it could easily be solved.
With android remote control as a bonus plus I can stream audio and video to any device as well. It is a well thought out program if you ask me. I don't always upgrade, right now I'm running a version behind (I think), I went from V17 (initial purchase) to V19.
Don't know what went wrong with your experiment, but I'm sure it could easily be solved.
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I also have 8 channels out on my interface (using it for stereo 2.1 and surround 5.1), and using the same as you I guess, it says "AudioBox [Asio]".
When I add a VST, it's like a veil fell between me and the music. I know it shouldn't but it is very perceptible.
And like I said, my violin track sounded horrible with JRiver version 19, but great with Audirvana. Maybe there is something else at play here as well, like the drivers written for PC and MAC could be a little different. The PC is brand new, new motherboard, new CPU, RAM HD etc...
When I add a VST, it's like a veil fell between me and the music. I know it shouldn't but it is very perceptible.
And like I said, my violin track sounded horrible with JRiver version 19, but great with Audirvana. Maybe there is something else at play here as well, like the drivers written for PC and MAC could be a little different. The PC is brand new, new motherboard, new CPU, RAM HD etc...