Still the same answer... Beauty is in the eye of the beholder... Also, in the morning the Overkill Audio stuff will still be expensive and gorgeous and adason, your cabinets will still be... Beautiful on the inside, there, I can play nicely!
The Overkill stuff was all designed around the Manger driver... One of the best ever for single hot seat listening... But off axis it sounded dull.
So ultimately its choose your compromise.
I gave up on the Manger as it was so expensive and I believe the only way to solve the dispersion issue is an array.... $$$$$$ !!
So ultimately its choose your compromise.
I gave up on the Manger as it was so expensive and I believe the only way to solve the dispersion issue is an array.... $$$$$$ !!
I do think this would be worth a try...
A VPL bass cabinet made from stranded bamboo and using twin 15 inch bass / low mids (Beyma 15P80 Fe/N would be perfect as they have a decent low Fs and are clean in open baffle over the 35Hz to around 600 Hz.
Then a Manger driver firing upward into a "spinning top" or acoustic lens as the commercial guys call it (I think Duevel started that idea?).
That would solve the dispersion issue, but you have to like the type of diffuse detail an acoustic lens creates.... Worth a try?
A VPL bass cabinet made from stranded bamboo and using twin 15 inch bass / low mids (Beyma 15P80 Fe/N would be perfect as they have a decent low Fs and are clean in open baffle over the 35Hz to around 600 Hz.
Then a Manger driver firing upward into a "spinning top" or acoustic lens as the commercial guys call it (I think Duevel started that idea?).
That would solve the dispersion issue, but you have to like the type of diffuse detail an acoustic lens creates.... Worth a try?
I did some work for him, in the end it didn't end all that well, he was trying to argue against physics, and had some weird ideas.
HA’s OB is OK looking, not a big fan of the Mannger enclosure, functional thou. Why you would mate a monoPole top with a dipole bottom is kinda weird.
dave
It depends on what's wanted. Personally, I do t enjoy the sound of wall, ceiling and floor reflections, so wide band wide dispersion isn't for me.
I've done it myself in the past, and am doing so again with my current speakers.
I'm not a fan of the wide dispersion chased by almost everyone.
My own preference leans towards side and vertical cancellations and so less reflections from my 12 inch open baffle wide ranges.
They are large baffles and so have no toe in, easing baffle reflections aimed at me.
This enhances their tendency to beam even with their whizzer cone and cone profile said by the seller to enhance off axis dispersion.
I roll them off electrically at about 3800 hz, and roll in sealed tweeters first order electrically at about 10000 hz.
The rise near their natural lower roll off extends this far enough down to dip an annoying cone breakup.
I've tried a couple open backed planars as well as a 7P, and with front wall and window drapes behind the speakers, find no value at all in dipole speakers in my room, so there's no reason I can hear not to use a monopole top end.
Maybe it's case specific, or just personal preference.
I listen to open baffle speakers, because due to side cancelation, they do not throw too much signal to walls, like normal closed monopoles. Side cancellation allows for first arriving direct sound to be almost free from early reflections. Because early reflections, those within first milliseconds, are very detrimental to clarity.
Signal projected back from open baffle is no problem, as it travels much longer before reaching listener, gets reflected many times, diffused and so on. Most importantly, its delayed more than tens on milliseconds and recognized as separate signal, giving spaciousness to sound. Not smearing the first arriving signal.
However it is important for any speaker, open baffle or not, either narrow or wide projecting, that it has on axis flat, and off axis uniform fr response. Countless listening tests and studies confirmed this. Speakers with anomalies in off axis response tend to cause listening fatigue.
Your 'wide band wide dispersion isn't for me' has nothing to do with what i was saying about manger drivers, and shows complete misunderstanding.
Signal projected back from open baffle is no problem, as it travels much longer before reaching listener, gets reflected many times, diffused and so on. Most importantly, its delayed more than tens on milliseconds and recognized as separate signal, giving spaciousness to sound. Not smearing the first arriving signal.
However it is important for any speaker, open baffle or not, either narrow or wide projecting, that it has on axis flat, and off axis uniform fr response. Countless listening tests and studies confirmed this. Speakers with anomalies in off axis response tend to cause listening fatigue.
Your 'wide band wide dispersion isn't for me' has nothing to do with what i was saying about manger drivers, and shows complete misunderstanding.
Preference for certain kind of sound/imaging/attack, looks or whatever is personal and unnegotiable. Someone like mothers, other daughters... best is to have a harem of loudspeakers and rooms! (I have three). Averages etc. studies of preference like Olive & Toole are for academic and marketing interest. https://seanolive.blogspot.com/
Physics and psychoacoustics behind "the sound" characteristics have been studied and some basic principles are defined well, and can pretty much be controlled and managed by speaker design and positioning in a given room. http://www.davidgriesinger.com/ https://www.linkwitzlab.com/ (go to "Basics") https://musicanddesign.speakerdesign.net/tech.html
The fun of DIY is to learn-by-mistakes! Loudspeaker manufacturing and marketing is not our business.
Please, let's be liberal and constructive also in conversations here! We don't have to make agreements or committee clauses.
Physics and psychoacoustics behind "the sound" characteristics have been studied and some basic principles are defined well, and can pretty much be controlled and managed by speaker design and positioning in a given room. http://www.davidgriesinger.com/ https://www.linkwitzlab.com/ (go to "Basics") https://musicanddesign.speakerdesign.net/tech.html
The fun of DIY is to learn-by-mistakes! Loudspeaker manufacturing and marketing is not our business.
Please, let's be liberal and constructive
also in conversations here! We don't have to make agreements or committee clauses.
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"Please, let's be liberal and constructive also in conversations here! We don't have to make agreements or committee clauses."
Well said juhazi, I support the great Sir Winston Churchill philosophy which he summarised in the Houses of Parliament in 1941:
"Although I 100% disagree with your statement, I will defend your right to make that statement with my dying breath!"
Music is all about emotions and passions and they go hand in hand with the systems we use to enjoy that music so its natural that the debates around the systems get a bit heated.
Having said that I recognise that sometimes I get carried away... Sorry to anyone who has taken offense when I go off on a rant... Also sorry in advance if I do it again!
Cheers
A.
also in conversations here! We don't have to make agreements or committee clauses."Well said juhazi, I support the great Sir Winston Churchill philosophy which he summarised in the Houses of Parliament in 1941:
"Although I 100% disagree with your statement, I will defend your right to make that statement with my dying breath!"
Music is all about emotions and passions and they go hand in hand with the systems we use to enjoy that music so its natural that the debates around the systems get a bit heated.
Having said that I recognise that sometimes I get carried away... Sorry to anyone who has taken offense when I go off on a rant... Also sorry in advance if I do it again!
Cheers
A.
"Although I 100% disagree with your statement, I will defend your right to make that statement with my dying breath!"
It was Evelyn Beatrice Hall that said those words, not Churchill, in 1906. He just misappropriated them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evelyn_Beatrice_Hall
It was Evelyn Beatrice Hall that said those words, not Churchill, in 1906. He just misappropriated them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evelyn_Beatrice_Hall
