Hello Waynes-Line-Stage-builders,
there are many ways how to connect a seperated PSU to your preamp. 🙄
some of my rules:
-the earth ground of the PSU is connected to the AC inlet (for sure!) ,to the case of the PSU and to the seperated case of the preamp. This is absolutely necessary for safety reasons.
-no audio ground gets connected to this earthground / case directly
-audioground (from the preamp -pcb) gets connected to the symmetrical PSU-output / 0 V / =PSU ground via a ground-loop-breaker.
-there are different ways to make a groundloopbreaker. For a preamp I prefer
a combination of a 5 to 10 Ohm resistor (3 W) in parallel two diodes in parallel-reversed connection (check pic). Sometimes I use groundloopbreakers
made of a bridgerectifier and a CL-60 thermistor (recipe from Nelson Pass).
- all audio grounds in the preamp case (RCA-ground, volume -pot-ground) are connected to the preamp-pcb-audioground. Try to make a starground. Avoid loops in your gounding scheme. Keep groundconnections short.
I am not the 'master of preamps' and I don't know everything, but my preamps are extremely silent.
Sometimes you have to test different grounding connections by using wires with alligator clamps. but don't connect/disconnect during your preamp is switched on.
This can cause ugly noises or perhaps destroys your speakers... 😕
greets
Dirk 😀
there are many ways how to connect a seperated PSU to your preamp. 🙄
some of my rules:
-the earth ground of the PSU is connected to the AC inlet (for sure!) ,to the case of the PSU and to the seperated case of the preamp. This is absolutely necessary for safety reasons.
-no audio ground gets connected to this earthground / case directly
-audioground (from the preamp -pcb) gets connected to the symmetrical PSU-output / 0 V / =PSU ground via a ground-loop-breaker.
-there are different ways to make a groundloopbreaker. For a preamp I prefer
a combination of a 5 to 10 Ohm resistor (3 W) in parallel two diodes in parallel-reversed connection (check pic). Sometimes I use groundloopbreakers
made of a bridgerectifier and a CL-60 thermistor (recipe from Nelson Pass).
- all audio grounds in the preamp case (RCA-ground, volume -pot-ground) are connected to the preamp-pcb-audioground. Try to make a starground. Avoid loops in your gounding scheme. Keep groundconnections short.
I am not the 'master of preamps' and I don't know everything, but my preamps are extremely silent.
Sometimes you have to test different grounding connections by using wires with alligator clamps. but don't connect/disconnect during your preamp is switched on.
This can cause ugly noises or perhaps destroys your speakers... 😕
greets
Dirk 😀
Attachments
to bonacciomj #2715
Hello bonacciomj,
as I see on your pics, you are using a digitally controlled relais switched resistor
ladder volume control. This can cause other problems. Digital or switch noises from the relais to the audio signal...
Try to isolate the digital section from the analog section....
greets
Dirk
Hello bonacciomj,
as I see on your pics, you are using a digitally controlled relais switched resistor
ladder volume control. This can cause other problems. Digital or switch noises from the relais to the audio signal...
Try to isolate the digital section from the analog section....
greets
Dirk
Great info, thank you!
Dirk, amandarae, thanks so much for your help!! I apologize if this sort of thing has been repeated ad nauseam in various other places, but I'm glad the discussion has resulted in really good info on grounding with separate enclosures being collected all in one place. Hopefully others will find it helpful as well.
RE: The volume control -- it will be on its own circuit essentially. I have a small transformer I will use for it, and the board has been designed to keep the digital and analog sections completely separate from one another. In short, it should not present much of a challenge.
One last question: Since this project includes an onboard phono preamp, there is a ground terminal for a turntable ground wire. Should I just connect this to the signal ground of the phono preamp boards?
I am away from the project at the moment, but once I'm back I'll get everything all hooked up and send an update, *hopefully* along with a report of a working preamplifier!
Haha. Glad you liked those. That's what you get for editorializing on an existing design -- I had calculated that Elna Silmic capacitors would fit in the case no problem, but alas, with the little plastic standoffs I got, they were just barely too big to close the lid. They only need about a millimeter more clearance, too... live and learn, I suppose. The makeshift cork standoffs seem to be working perfectly though!
Dirk, amandarae, thanks so much for your help!! I apologize if this sort of thing has been repeated ad nauseam in various other places, but I'm glad the discussion has resulted in really good info on grounding with separate enclosures being collected all in one place. Hopefully others will find it helpful as well.
RE: The volume control -- it will be on its own circuit essentially. I have a small transformer I will use for it, and the board has been designed to keep the digital and analog sections completely separate from one another. In short, it should not present much of a challenge.
One last question: Since this project includes an onboard phono preamp, there is a ground terminal for a turntable ground wire. Should I just connect this to the signal ground of the phono preamp boards?
I am away from the project at the moment, but once I'm back I'll get everything all hooked up and send an update, *hopefully* along with a report of a working preamplifier!
Haha. Glad you liked those. That's what you get for editorializing on an existing design -- I had calculated that Elna Silmic capacitors would fit in the case no problem, but alas, with the little plastic standoffs I got, they were just barely too big to close the lid. They only need about a millimeter more clearance, too... live and learn, I suppose. The makeshift cork standoffs seem to be working perfectly though!
to bonacciomj #2724
If you run your signal from the pickup via RCA-conection to the phono-preamp,
then you have a ground connection (audio ground). It is normally not necessary to run an extra ground-connection between vinylplayer and phono-pre.
Most often it will be necessary to add the groundcable from the vinylplayer to
chassisground of the phonopreamp because of different electrical potentials - so that the chance to get noise is very high.
The signals coming out of a pickup are in the mV - range. So they can be influenced very easily....
You will have to try/test this.
Greets
Dirk
If you run your signal from the pickup via RCA-conection to the phono-preamp,
then you have a ground connection (audio ground). It is normally not necessary to run an extra ground-connection between vinylplayer and phono-pre.
Most often it will be necessary to add the groundcable from the vinylplayer to
chassisground of the phonopreamp because of different electrical potentials - so that the chance to get noise is very high.
The signals coming out of a pickup are in the mV - range. So they can be influenced very easily....
You will have to try/test this.
Greets
Dirk
Thanks, Dirk. The phono pre is totally single ended, no op amps or complementary devices. All N-channel JFETs, so ground is ground. I'll try all three: with the turntable grounded to the chassis, grounded to signal ground, and with the ground wire unconnected. It may not matter at all, or else it may be obvious which is right.
I might get lucky and be able to connect the ground internally (in the turntable) and the RCAs could ground it. We'll see, thankfully it ought to be relatively easy to try each option and determine the best.
If it isn't already clear by some of the choices I've made, I'm going for a be-all-end-all version of the BA18 pre. If I can pick up a couple extra dB of SNR or thousandths of a percent of THD by assembling everything correctly, it's worth it to me. Of course, it may all be a pipe dream.. this is my first ever "from-scratch" build. It may take a good deal of refining, but that's the fun of this hobby isn't it?
I might get lucky and be able to connect the ground internally (in the turntable) and the RCAs could ground it. We'll see, thankfully it ought to be relatively easy to try each option and determine the best.
If it isn't already clear by some of the choices I've made, I'm going for a be-all-end-all version of the BA18 pre. If I can pick up a couple extra dB of SNR or thousandths of a percent of THD by assembling everything correctly, it's worth it to me. Of course, it may all be a pipe dream.. this is my first ever "from-scratch" build. It may take a good deal of refining, but that's the fun of this hobby isn't it?
Has anyone had a chance to listen to both the ba2018 and the Aleph 1.7? I am curious what your listening impressions are.
Thanks!
Thanks!
I used to have a 1.7. It was replaced by a Relaixed 2 pre amp which was replaced by a Mytek Brooklyn DAC+. The pre amp part of the Brooklyn is now bypassed in favor of an BA2018.
Pretty cool. Thanks. That about clears it up for me.
I had read of someone building a BA2018 as a backup for their Aleph 1.7. I would think that a newer design like the BA2018 should be better in a lot of ways.
I had read of someone building a BA2018 as a backup for their Aleph 1.7. I would think that a newer design like the BA2018 should be better in a lot of ways.
Remember the troubles i had?
Suddenly, WLS stopped working (1 channel out, loud hum/buzz) and I was wondering wether I cooked it, or wether VRDN gor fried somehow?
Well, I'm back with a newly arranged build (yes it took me a long time!), finally had everything hooked up and… 1 channel dead [emoji3517] …
So I played around with the connections (is it the plug? The cable? The line-stage? The inbetweenies?
After connecting the WLS directly to source and poweramp everything’s cool, WLS rocks the house.
Which leaves me with 2 potential sources of dismay: either the Salas i-select or the elma relay attenuator got cooked. (Hard to tell: both boards seem to be working, the relays happily trigger on both, i-select powers led and relayattenuator, so I gotta dive into it.
Will disconnect elma and give it an ear.
I need to improve my debugging skills.
SSSIGH
Last edited:
Mikerodrig27:
I have. I built an Aleph P 1.7 about 14 years ago and used it in my main system for about 11-12 years, until it was replaced by my BA2018.
I thought my Aleph P 1.7 sounded like a Pass Labs product: great soundstage width and depth, detailed without being etched, slightly to the warm side of neutral. It was, for many years, paired with a pair of Pass Labs' Aleph 1.2 mono blocks. The combination was terrific -- authoritative, sumptuous, convincing -- and a magnificent pairing.
F5 Turbo V3 mono blocks supplanted the Aleph 1.2 mono amps about 7 years ago, and the biggest difference I heard (with the Aleph P 1.7) was a slightly more neutral tonality. Similar stage width and depth, speaker control and authority, maybe a little less sumptuousness but just as convincing a presentation. The V3s gained a little warmth and depth when I increased their power supply capacitance from 160,000 uF to 250,000 uF apiece. A valuable improvement.
My BA2018 is a bit more neutral than the Aleph P 1.7. It also sounds a little faster and provides more inner detail, but is not clinical or etched in any way. My impression is that it offers slightly better clarity into the music than the Aleph P 1.7, perhaps at the expense of "the Pass Labs sound." I like it and think it's a worthy successor to my venerable Aleph P 1.7.
Regards,
Scott
Attachments
Hi guys, I’m pretty new at this I have a few questions about the BA2018. i hope this isn’t a dumb one. I bought the kit from the store. It came with enough 1845 & 992 transistors but the kit also came with jfets C2690A & A1220A. Positions Q8 Q10,Q20 & Q25 on the board show like possibly could use either transistor or fets. Is this correct? If so, is one better than the other or should I say more beneficial to use?
The kit also came with (4) 15ohm resistors. I don’t see a spot for them. Am I overlooking something? Lastly, the kit was sent with (2) 4pf caps that I don’t see a spot for them either. Any thoughts and thank you in advance? Joe
The kit also came with (4) 15ohm resistors. I don’t see a spot for them. Am I overlooking something? Lastly, the kit was sent with (2) 4pf caps that I don’t see a spot for them either. Any thoughts and thank you in advance? Joe
The kit comes with 2 variation to be built: the „original“ one and one with bigger … parts, to enhance or enable headphone capacity.
IF I recall correctly, you‘ll find the description of what goes where on the schematic (as well as somewhere here in the thread…)
I think nobody who made the comparison was in favor of either variant, soundwise…
Good fun with the build!
IF I recall correctly, you‘ll find the description of what goes where on the schematic (as well as somewhere here in the thread…)
I think nobody who made the comparison was in favor of either variant, soundwise…
Good fun with the build!
Get in a quiet room and turn on pre with top off so you can hear. Turn the Lorcin VERY slowly and just before it "clunks" into position you can hear the relay click. Turn very slowly, click is just before clunk...if you just turn it, the clunk will obscure the relay's clicking.
Russellc
Ah, thank you, Russell!
I accidentally had precisely this situation and negan to play around, finding the trigger moment.
Must have been another clumsy connection: WLS was playing fine.
Connected i-select, playing fine,
measured the elma, doing fine…
Scratching head
Rewired attenuator, connected it—DOING FINE, yippie!
It again was just a clumsy connection! Shame on me, lucky me!
to Mikerodrig27
Hello Mikerodrig27,
I fully agree with the descriptions (soundwise) SRMcGee described in his post #2732.
I have also built an Aleph P1.7 - pre a few years ago. I still like it!
After building Waynes Line Stage I used the WLS more often. I have built it
as a dual-mono-pre. I like the clarity and details the WLS offers. But it also depends on the complete chain - if you have a speaker with a bit 'strong' highs,
it could be too much. But this is not the fault of the WLS! The Aleph P1.7 could 'smooth' this a bit.
My favourite preamps from Wayne and Mr. Pass are the WLS, ACP+ and the
B1 KORG NUTUBE. They all sound great! With slightly different characters...
WLS (with the big output-transistors) and ACP+ are also fantastic headphone-amps!
Cheers
Dirk 😀
Hello Mikerodrig27,
I fully agree with the descriptions (soundwise) SRMcGee described in his post #2732.
I have also built an Aleph P1.7 - pre a few years ago. I still like it!
After building Waynes Line Stage I used the WLS more often. I have built it
as a dual-mono-pre. I like the clarity and details the WLS offers. But it also depends on the complete chain - if you have a speaker with a bit 'strong' highs,
it could be too much. But this is not the fault of the WLS! The Aleph P1.7 could 'smooth' this a bit.
My favourite preamps from Wayne and Mr. Pass are the WLS, ACP+ and the
B1 KORG NUTUBE. They all sound great! With slightly different characters...
WLS (with the big output-transistors) and ACP+ are also fantastic headphone-amps!
Cheers
Dirk 😀
