First rule is wives are always rigth, so forget the ESL mosquitos vertical trampolin. That said in spite of complex grill to hide the front baffle of any loudspeaker you can use the sock technic with a fabric around a frame like Vandersteen. If the frame has three rodes, two towards the speaker front and one behind, it can give a triangle shape and hide all the loudspeaker...no need veneer anymore...black front baffle fabric is forgiving in a room and cheap. Extensible and washable...
Fair enough. Only needed an onshipper for the 'no non US sales types'.
Depends what you want and how you look at costs. I've stopped building half way or compromise projects and now just build what I really want even if it means saving for it for some time. That's been my point; decide what you want and build it, else you'll just end up doing it later down the line and the total costs will invariably be higher that way.
'decide what you want and build it, else you'll just end up doing it later down the line and the total costs will invariably be higher that way'.
Absolutely, but my Celtic ancestry hates spending money when I don't have to.....like having to fork out many tens of thousands of dollars in "Stamp Duty" to the State Government when I buy a house, but get nothing in return! Sorry, off topic.
I think there's some old saying which goes something like 'if you buy what you want but spend too much money, all you have lost is some money. But if you spend less and don't get what you want, you have also lost money but not got what you wanted in the first place'.
Geoff
Absolutely, but my Celtic ancestry hates spending money when I don't have to.....like having to fork out many tens of thousands of dollars in "Stamp Duty" to the State Government when I buy a house, but get nothing in return! Sorry, off topic.
I think there's some old saying which goes something like 'if you buy what you want but spend too much money, all you have lost is some money. But if you spend less and don't get what you want, you have also lost money but not got what you wanted in the first place'.
Geoff
Scots Irish here.
You get the satisfaction of knowing that your betters in power will spend it far more wisely and efficiently than you ever could.
The living/kitchen room is 6.2 x 5.2 x 2.425m (82.7 cub.m). This equates to 18' x 20'4" x 8' (2927 cub.ft).
All CDs these days. Many years ago I foolishly (and very niavely) put my pristine LP collection up for sale at $2 each. A couple of years later, I walked into a LP shop and saw similar LPs in a lot worse condition, going for $35+.
Not a huge room - do you have a sub? A 6-7" two way could work well. Many options, including the designs and projects you've mentioned and I can only talk about those I've made.
I also disposed of most of our LPs some years ago, have now come to regret that although we have almost all of the LPs on CD. I liked having the covers, posters etc. I didn't like the warps, scratches, party finger marks or rumble from poor quality pressings.
Geoff
I have owned Jeff Bagby Helios and there where superb… just bear in mind your intended listening distance (2.5-3m minimum with the Helios, otherwise go for the smaller revolution, Kairos or Sprit winds). Helios are also very large for stand mounts.
I am currently building overnight sensations for and second desktop/computer monitors - amazing for the price.
Definitely hear over to the DIYAudio Facebook group and learn how to search on there… everything you need
I am currently building overnight sensations for and second desktop/computer monitors - amazing for the price.
Definitely hear over to the DIYAudio Facebook group and learn how to search on there… everything you need
OK
I've developed a short list, based on parts availability in Australia. Did some research and shipping from PE to Australia added around 120% to the cost.
Can anyone please give me their recommendations on the following :-
1. Paul Carmody's Classix II $ 230au
2. Paul Carmody's Classix 2.5 (tower) $350au
3. SB Acoustics Bromo $540au
4. Tritrix Tower $321au
The prices are local Australian suppliers, delivered - for drivers only, but I've added $40au for crossover parts.
I will build the cabinets myself.
When considering recommendations, I like blues, rnb, rock, and the SWMBO likes classical.
They will go in a 6.2m x 5.2m (18' x 20'4") room which is quite bright (plasterboard walls and ceiling, hard covered concrete floor with some rugs and drapes).
If price is any indication, the Bromos should be 2.3 times better than the Classiz IIs. This is where I need the guidance.
I've developed a short list, based on parts availability in Australia. Did some research and shipping from PE to Australia added around 120% to the cost.
Can anyone please give me their recommendations on the following :-
1. Paul Carmody's Classix II $ 230au
2. Paul Carmody's Classix 2.5 (tower) $350au
3. SB Acoustics Bromo $540au
4. Tritrix Tower $321au
The prices are local Australian suppliers, delivered - for drivers only, but I've added $40au for crossover parts.
I will build the cabinets myself.
When considering recommendations, I like blues, rnb, rock, and the SWMBO likes classical.
They will go in a 6.2m x 5.2m (18' x 20'4") room which is quite bright (plasterboard walls and ceiling, hard covered concrete floor with some rugs and drapes).
If price is any indication, the Bromos should be 2.3 times better than the Classiz IIs. This is where I need the guidance.
I'm not familiar with the Bromos, but SB makes very good drivers, are you able to get the cabinet and crossover plans? They look pretty nice, if a bit more expensive that the other options. Very snazzy looking drivers, what are the customer reviews like?
I've used the SB16pfc woofers and really like them. SB's designers used to work for a famous Danish company.
The crossovers for any of your options will cost much more than $40, I'm afraid: as per my comments above, those for the Tritrix will be around $130, the Classix II around $200 using good quality caps and air core inductors. The Classix 2.5s have an extra inductor which will add another $25 or so; you can use a cheaper iron-core for that, in fact Paul recommends it.
The 2.5s are a TMM, which puts the tweeter closer to your ears for listening, if that's a consideration. If your room is bright, I'd lean towards the 2.5s; the sound is a little more laid back than the Tritrix. Bass from the Classix is excellent, I suggest you read Paul's notes on the different versions of the Classix on his website.
I'd go for the 2.5s, over the IIs: they will play louder and according to Paul's website, have better mid range than the IIs. Cost difference between the two is $120 for the woofers and $25 for the crossover parts, the extra MDF would be b - -r all. Your amp can be set at lower volume and your wife will have more 'headroom' for things like Verdi's Requiem, plus the better mids will be noticeable when listening to classical music.
No need for a sub, either.
I've listened to both kinds of music - country AND western - and the Classix II perform well. As I said, I'd love to build the 2.5s and have all the parts.
The Tritrix crossover is easier to assemble that Classix, if that's a consideration. Side by side, when I've connected one of each to our receiver, the Tritrix MTMs (vented version) don't go as low in the bass but have a clearer mid range than the Classix; highs are a bit more refined in the Classix as the Vifa is honestly a better quality tweeter. Further, its dome isn't a dust magnet!
However, the more refined mids in the Tritrix are a bit better for reproducing classical music.
If you want to discuss further by all means please PM me, happy to share my build experiences. All my comments are of course based on my ears, in our room, and my hearing only goes to about 10,000 Hz.
Geoff
I've used the SB16pfc woofers and really like them. SB's designers used to work for a famous Danish company.
The crossovers for any of your options will cost much more than $40, I'm afraid: as per my comments above, those for the Tritrix will be around $130, the Classix II around $200 using good quality caps and air core inductors. The Classix 2.5s have an extra inductor which will add another $25 or so; you can use a cheaper iron-core for that, in fact Paul recommends it.
The 2.5s are a TMM, which puts the tweeter closer to your ears for listening, if that's a consideration. If your room is bright, I'd lean towards the 2.5s; the sound is a little more laid back than the Tritrix. Bass from the Classix is excellent, I suggest you read Paul's notes on the different versions of the Classix on his website.
I'd go for the 2.5s, over the IIs: they will play louder and according to Paul's website, have better mid range than the IIs. Cost difference between the two is $120 for the woofers and $25 for the crossover parts, the extra MDF would be b - -r all. Your amp can be set at lower volume and your wife will have more 'headroom' for things like Verdi's Requiem, plus the better mids will be noticeable when listening to classical music.
No need for a sub, either.
I've listened to both kinds of music - country AND western - and the Classix II perform well. As I said, I'd love to build the 2.5s and have all the parts.
The Tritrix crossover is easier to assemble that Classix, if that's a consideration. Side by side, when I've connected one of each to our receiver, the Tritrix MTMs (vented version) don't go as low in the bass but have a clearer mid range than the Classix; highs are a bit more refined in the Classix as the Vifa is honestly a better quality tweeter. Further, its dome isn't a dust magnet!
However, the more refined mids in the Tritrix are a bit better for reproducing classical music.
If you want to discuss further by all means please PM me, happy to share my build experiences. All my comments are of course based on my ears, in our room, and my hearing only goes to about 10,000 Hz.
Geoff
I should have mentioned that I'm hoping for some good/fair 3D imaging.OK
I've developed a short list, based on parts availability in Australia. Did some research and shipping from PE to Australia added around 120% to the cost.
Can anyone please give me their recommendations on the following :-
1. Paul Carmody's Classix II $ 230au
2. Paul Carmody's Classix 2.5 (tower) $350au
3. SB Acoustics Bromo $540au
4. Tritrix Tower $321au
The prices are local Australian suppliers, delivered - for drivers only, but I've added $40au for crossover parts.
I will build the cabinets myself.
When considering recommendations, I like blues, rnb, rock, and the SWMBO likes classical.
They will go in a 6.2m x 5.2m (18' x 20'4") room which is quite bright (plasterboard walls and ceiling, hard covered concrete floor with some rugs and drapes).
If price is any indication, the Bromos should be 2.3 times better than the Classiz IIs. This is where I need the guidance.
PS prices for the Tritrix crossover, from my favourite supplier in Brisbane:
2.5mH inductors, $25 each
0.6mH inductors, $9 each
2.4 ohm resistors, $2.72 each
20 microfarad cap (poly) $17 each
10 microfarad cap (poly)$13 each
The Classix crossovers have additional inductors and caps so are more complex and costly.
Geoff
2.5mH inductors, $25 each
0.6mH inductors, $9 each
2.4 ohm resistors, $2.72 each
20 microfarad cap (poly) $17 each
10 microfarad cap (poly)$13 each
The Classix crossovers have additional inductors and caps so are more complex and costly.
Geoff
I find the imaging for both is fine; when it hasn't been, that's usually the fault of the recording/production.
As you can see, my handiwork is pretty rough but these were the first cabinets I built. I use them on stands.
Geoff
Attachments
I've been trying to download the cabinet drawings, crossover details, etc. with limited sucess. Have reported the problem to them.
However they might not have a very good bang-for-buck, considering my limited critical listening experience.
The SB Acoustic drivers specified are both ceramic, although they do say that alternative SB Acoustic aluminium drivers could be used without altering the crossover. See https://sbacoustics.com/product/bromo/
I was only using the $40 as a provisional amount (but I guess I should have been a bit more realistic). That said, I can't see myself using $500 caps.
That's the sort of feedback I was after. But I found Paul's notes fairly similar whether he was talking about the Classix II, The Overnight Sensations or the 2.5s.
Wow, you can hear as high as 10kHz!!!!
I haven't been game enough to test mine recently, but I'm 76 years ago, if that gives any indication.This is all great information, and I think you've convinced me to go for the Classix 2.5s.
In addition, Paul's website is thorough, and you can always contact him on the Parts Express forum - Tech Talk Audio Forum https://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/tech-talk-forum
Thanks again, Geoff.
Trying to figure out who the guy is on the side of the box. Is that you?
I like the time alignment you've done on the baffle. How did you arrive at the offset?
Actually I've never done a veneer finish.
The mains in my HT and my early subs were professionally sprayed dark grey.
The HT surrounds were sprayed black using Bunnings spray cans.
And my pro sub bins I coated with black Duratex.
This time around I'm thinking of maybe a semi-gloss white.
But that will be up to SWMBO.
Apart from my HT setup, I've never been happy with imaging I've had from past store bought speakers, so that why I'm hoping that this project will give me at least some sort of imaging in the less-than-ideal living room of our new home.
Is this from SpeakerBug?
I take it the caps are not the Janzen Superior Zs?
Yes, from Speakerbug: caps are "Cross Caps", I've always been happy with them and don't think paying many more $$ would necessarily be audible to my ears.
I was able to download the details for the SB, I'm sure it would sound good but I haven't found any reviews as yet.
The guy on the cabinet is the great Jimi Hendrix, passed away in 1970 and still the best electric guitar player.......
The 'time alignment' was an accident (!), it's not supposed to be like that, but it's only about 2mm and I don't think (or hope!) that makes a difference to the sound.
Geoff
I was able to download the details for the SB, I'm sure it would sound good but I haven't found any reviews as yet.
The guy on the cabinet is the great Jimi Hendrix, passed away in 1970 and still the best electric guitar player.......
The 'time alignment' was an accident (!), it's not supposed to be like that, but it's only about 2mm and I don't think (or hope!) that makes a difference to the sound.
Geoff
Thanks Wolf, that's interesting: it's rare that a driver maker will make a design and crossover available to all. The SB is certainly a much cooler looking driver than the Daytons; and as a noted designer, you have a better and younger ear than I for the sound of a speaker.
As per Paul's description of his Classix, I find they're more forgiving of lesser quality recordings, which to be fair comprise about a third of our collection. Our higher end RS180 MTMs provide a more detailed, 'cleaner' sound, but I can hear more mistakes and quirks. That sometimes adds atmosphere, other times brings out the shortcomings of recording.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record (no pun) as I always use this example, I can tolerate the Red Hot Chili Peppers on the Classix, but not the MTMs: there's a real harshness about the Peppers' recorded sound.
In comparison to other options, the $A damage for the drivers will be $490 from WES, plus about $160 for the crossover components.
Geoff
As per Paul's description of his Classix, I find they're more forgiving of lesser quality recordings, which to be fair comprise about a third of our collection. Our higher end RS180 MTMs provide a more detailed, 'cleaner' sound, but I can hear more mistakes and quirks. That sometimes adds atmosphere, other times brings out the shortcomings of recording.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record (no pun) as I always use this example, I can tolerate the Red Hot Chili Peppers on the Classix, but not the MTMs: there's a real harshness about the Peppers' recorded sound.
In comparison to other options, the $A damage for the drivers will be $490 from WES, plus about $160 for the crossover components.
Geoff
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Many happy builders for the 10F/RS225 FAST. Many say it’s the best speaker they have heard and beats $12k commercial soeakers. Natural sounding, clear, non fatiguing and able to replicate percussion, strings, piano and guitar accurately due to 1st order transient perfect crossover. Design is proven with about 2 dozen builds or more in the field. The TL digs deep to 30Hz and needs no subwoofer. The sealed stand mounts reach 50Hz. Complete design plans and crossover with measurements in thread:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/10f-8424-rs225-8-fast-waw-ref-monitor.273524/
Floorstanding TL’s:
Sealed Standmounts:
Cost about $525 not including wood for cabinet. About $200 more for wood depending on your cost for a local retailer for BB ply.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/10f-8424-rs225-8-fast-waw-ref-monitor.273524/
Floorstanding TL’s:
Sealed Standmounts:
Cost about $525 not including wood for cabinet. About $200 more for wood depending on your cost for a local retailer for BB ply.
Attachments
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