Dear friends
God bless you all.
I have a pair of focal audiom 13wx and pair of audiom 15wx
I need an help regarding to make a clone of the wilson audio alexandria xlf
If there is anyone in this group who has a friend with the real wilson and can supply measurements of the bass enclosure and the port measurements.
Thank you all.
God bless you all.
I have a pair of focal audiom 13wx and pair of audiom 15wx
I need an help regarding to make a clone of the wilson audio alexandria xlf
If there is anyone in this group who has a friend with the real wilson and can supply measurements of the bass enclosure and the port measurements.
Thank you all.
I don't know real enclosure measurements but stereophile has measurements. Port tuning frequency is 19hz. Then you can look stereophile measurements and try get similar or better response. Also yo can look enclosure outer dimensions from wilson audio manual.
Wilson midrange is special OEM product for them. But maybe you can use sb acoustics satori mw16p-8 woofers for midrange. Sensivity would match quite good when tou connect those paraller. For tweeter scan speak D3004/662000 woud work or maybe D2904/710003 have better match with speaker high sensivity.
Wilson midrange is special OEM product for them. But maybe you can use sb acoustics satori mw16p-8 woofers for midrange. Sensivity would match quite good when tou connect those paraller. For tweeter scan speak D3004/662000 woud work or maybe D2904/710003 have better match with speaker high sensivity.
They use OEM drivers made by Scanspeak, Tymphany (Peerless/Vifa), SB acoustics and Audio Technology (a spinoff brand from Scanspeak) i heared. But they are OEM tailored to their wishes, not drivers you can buy. And Wilson Audio is not that exceptioinal on sound, they don't measure that well. And to make an exact clone is almost impossible, because you don't have the exact drivers they have.
If you want to make a similar speaker, make a seperate enclosure for each driver and stack them that way, it's layout is a Mid-tweeter-mid woofer subwoofer. You don't need to copy the exact sizes, you need to tune the speaker cabinet to the size the driver need for its passband.
If you want to make a similar speaker, make a seperate enclosure for each driver and stack them that way, it's layout is a Mid-tweeter-mid woofer subwoofer. You don't need to copy the exact sizes, you need to tune the speaker cabinet to the size the driver need for its passband.
Those Focal drivers are excellent for bass and midbass. I prefer them to the scan-speaks they use today.
XLF midrange drivers are good but not excellent.
I would look at later designs like Alexx
and use SB acoustics 7,5" 4ohm Textreme and 5" 4ohm Textreme + their 29mm Textreme tweeters.
Those drivers will surpass XLF in sound if crossover are designed properly.
Driver technology move fast and this level wasn't available when Wilson XLF where designed.
Good luck...
XLF midrange drivers are good but not excellent.
I would look at later designs like Alexx
and use SB acoustics 7,5" 4ohm Textreme and 5" 4ohm Textreme + their 29mm Textreme tweeters.
Those drivers will surpass XLF in sound if crossover are designed properly.
Driver technology move fast and this level wasn't available when Wilson XLF where designed.
Good luck...
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Nearest new driver vs audiom 15wx might be Audio technology 15 sandwich cone version.
Good idea to use SB acoustics Textreme drivers, those sound might fit just well with audiom because of composite cones.
Sb acoustic 29mm tweeter is good also. There is textreme and also beryllium version.
Good idea to use SB acoustics Textreme drivers, those sound might fit just well with audiom because of composite cones.
Sb acoustic 29mm tweeter is good also. There is textreme and also beryllium version.
Thank you all
God bless you for replying my post and trying to help.
As you know wilson audio uses 13wx and 15wx at the same enclosure, so how much volume this enclosure needs ?
For example if i am trying to simulate by bass box pro, enclosure for 13wx i get a volume of 85 liter and for 15wx i get a volume of 185 liter, having said that, each enclosure has different resonant frequency and different port diameter and length.
The software that I know do not know how to work with 2 different drivers at the same enclosure.
The drivers that I'm planning to work with are the focal woofers
Tweeters are scan speak 7100 in the front, back tweeter will be sb acoustics satori tw29dn
And the real surprise are the midranges
They are based of Audio Technology 15H but very very unique and expensive
Every part is custom made
Plycarbon textreme cones
Vented titanium voice coil
Double ring magnet
Kurt muller polymer spider
Huge alnico 5-7 ac60 which is the most powerful alnico there is
And even grounding terminal for those drivers.
The drivers are very very linear and super fast drivers.
I have never heard such life like midranges and the goal is to play them 200-250hz up to 3500-4000hz
God bless you for replying my post and trying to help.
As you know wilson audio uses 13wx and 15wx at the same enclosure, so how much volume this enclosure needs ?
For example if i am trying to simulate by bass box pro, enclosure for 13wx i get a volume of 85 liter and for 15wx i get a volume of 185 liter, having said that, each enclosure has different resonant frequency and different port diameter and length.
The software that I know do not know how to work with 2 different drivers at the same enclosure.
The drivers that I'm planning to work with are the focal woofers
Tweeters are scan speak 7100 in the front, back tweeter will be sb acoustics satori tw29dn
And the real surprise are the midranges
They are based of Audio Technology 15H but very very unique and expensive
Every part is custom made
Plycarbon textreme cones
Vented titanium voice coil
Double ring magnet
Kurt muller polymer spider
Huge alnico 5-7 ac60 which is the most powerful alnico there is
And even grounding terminal for those drivers.
The drivers are very very linear and super fast drivers.
I have never heard such life like midranges and the goal is to play them 200-250hz up to 3500-4000hz
Attachments
Great selection of drivers.
That midrange will start beaming above 2500 Hz just because of driver size so don't push too high. Tweeters are comfortably crossovered at 2kHz with 12 dB filter. 3kHz ?
Let's look into that once you presented midrange measurements.
Personally I would not use a bigger volume than 5 liters for the midrange just because how the volume colour the sound.
Since you change from the XLF 7" mid to a 5,5" mid I would look to place 13WX in a enclosure of it's own.
A 5,5" mid will sound leaner than a 7".
A smaller volume helps to get back some of the bass punch that you loose by changing mid to a smaller size.
Maybe have a smaller closed cabinet for 13WX that have aperiodic damping into the 15wx cabinet to lower the resonant peak of 13wx minimizing interaction between 15WX and 13WX drivers and still have the benefit of the punchier sound from a smaller enclosure for 13WX.
Regarding volume of the enclosures it very much depend on the size of the room where they are supposed to be placed.
I can give you an estimation what I would select for these drivers, and give you an explanation why I select certain sizes.
Then you can think about it and find out if you think it's a good idea once you heard the reasoning behind it.
I have designed loudspeakers using 13WX and 11WX so I have a little bit of experience about their excellent transient capacity because of their stiff suspension.
They truly are among the best bass drivers ever designed for home use.
Room dimensions ?
That midrange will start beaming above 2500 Hz just because of driver size so don't push too high. Tweeters are comfortably crossovered at 2kHz with 12 dB filter. 3kHz ?
Let's look into that once you presented midrange measurements.
Personally I would not use a bigger volume than 5 liters for the midrange just because how the volume colour the sound.
Since you change from the XLF 7" mid to a 5,5" mid I would look to place 13WX in a enclosure of it's own.
A 5,5" mid will sound leaner than a 7".
A smaller volume helps to get back some of the bass punch that you loose by changing mid to a smaller size.
Maybe have a smaller closed cabinet for 13WX that have aperiodic damping into the 15wx cabinet to lower the resonant peak of 13wx minimizing interaction between 15WX and 13WX drivers and still have the benefit of the punchier sound from a smaller enclosure for 13WX.
Regarding volume of the enclosures it very much depend on the size of the room where they are supposed to be placed.
I can give you an estimation what I would select for these drivers, and give you an explanation why I select certain sizes.
Then you can think about it and find out if you think it's a good idea once you heard the reasoning behind it.
I have designed loudspeakers using 13WX and 11WX so I have a little bit of experience about their excellent transient capacity because of their stiff suspension.
They truly are among the best bass drivers ever designed for home use.
Room dimensions ?
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And when you see the avatar with a Focal Utopia, it makes no sense as well....
You can NOT clone a pig with dog genes or it will sing like a baboon. (Well good if it looks like a baboon is the targett).
Best bet : if you have some drivers already : design from scratch according the drivers specs that dictate the choices.
You can NOT clone a pig with dog genes or it will sing like a baboon. (Well good if it looks like a baboon is the targett).
Best bet : if you have some drivers already : design from scratch according the drivers specs that dictate the choices.
In most cases anyone who ask such a question didn't hear this speaker plays music.
Google: "the best loudspeakers of all times" you will see that the alexandria is one of them, if i remember correctly it got the highest rating among the others
My room dimensions are 4x9 meters open space, but in this open space my listening area is 4x4
Usually 6 intch drivers start to beam around 2500hz the cone itself is 10cm diameter not including the surround, the surround is narrow and also special form V shape. I have play this driver at high volume and it's sound very clear at the 3000hz region.
I will present the T/s parameters as soon as the drivers will end the burn in time.
Having said that they were designed to work in closed box, unlike wilson that uses port for the midranges, to me closed box gives the best sound.
Regarding the slopes I was thinking to work 12db electrical, but 18db acoustical.
I heard the 11wx 13wx and 15wx
They have amazing bass transient
Especially the 13wx, one time I put it in 120 liter ported box and the bass sounds like heaven on earth.
That is a very small room for these drivers.
If going with 4x4 meter you will overload the room with too much bass.
I made som simulations for 35 m2 big room. Hopefully they can help you make up your mind about how to proceed.
First your 13WX in a 120 liter ported that you liked.
Green is loudspeaker, red is loudspeaker + room gain for 35 m2 room.
I would judge 120 liter too big volume.
Next is 13WX in 60 liter ported which I think will be a much better solution. Still with som imponator bass.
Orange is loudspeaker, blue loudspeaker + room gain 35 m2 room.
Next is 15WX in 92 liter ported and I would say that here you can see that this driver was designed as a no compromise driver for full extension in a room.
Reference level lower bass, but I would go with a smaller driver and a smaller enclosure volume for the upper bass to keep transient capability.
Red loudspeaker, blue loudspeaker + room gain 35 m2
Next is 13WX in a 40 liter closed enclosure.
Red loudspeaker, purple loudspeaker + roomgain. As you can see 13WX approx. 6dB down below 45 Hz compared to 15WX when you combine them.
How about 15WX in 92 liter ported and 13WX in 40 liter closed cabinet?
First impedance peaks quite close indicates now big problems with cancelations between drivers.
Blue 15WX, purple 13WX
Phase differences is quite small so the drivers should be able to keep a linear response when used in parallell.
This is just estimations and very much also depends on the shape of your room and the actual listening space of 4x4 meter.
If going with 4x4 meter you will overload the room with too much bass.
I made som simulations for 35 m2 big room. Hopefully they can help you make up your mind about how to proceed.
First your 13WX in a 120 liter ported that you liked.
Green is loudspeaker, red is loudspeaker + room gain for 35 m2 room.
I would judge 120 liter too big volume.
Next is 13WX in 60 liter ported which I think will be a much better solution. Still with som imponator bass.
Orange is loudspeaker, blue loudspeaker + room gain 35 m2 room.
Next is 15WX in 92 liter ported and I would say that here you can see that this driver was designed as a no compromise driver for full extension in a room.
Reference level lower bass, but I would go with a smaller driver and a smaller enclosure volume for the upper bass to keep transient capability.
Red loudspeaker, blue loudspeaker + room gain 35 m2
Next is 13WX in a 40 liter closed enclosure.
Red loudspeaker, purple loudspeaker + roomgain. As you can see 13WX approx. 6dB down below 45 Hz compared to 15WX when you combine them.
How about 15WX in 92 liter ported and 13WX in 40 liter closed cabinet?
First impedance peaks quite close indicates now big problems with cancelations between drivers.
Blue 15WX, purple 13WX
Phase differences is quite small so the drivers should be able to keep a linear response when used in parallell.
This is just estimations and very much also depends on the shape of your room and the actual listening space of 4x4 meter.
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That may be true in general. But here, it's more likely that well-seasoned experts just know better, heard better systems and/or know about psychoacoustics. I dare say no speaker system that is not tailored specifically to the room it's used (and vice versa, but that's another story) is anywhere near perfect.
Thank very much for your reply
I appreciate it a lot.
Using 13wx in sealed enclosure and 15wx in ported makes the crossover more complex, since they will be needed different xo for each, as far as I know alexandria uses same xo network for 13wx and 15wx which connected in parallel.
More ever putting the 13wx in sealed enclosure will ruin its transient.
I think i have tried this method and it wasn't exactly my cup of tea.
Stereophile test with measurements https://www.stereophile.com/content/wilson-audio-specialties-alexandria-xlf-loudspeaker-measurements
Averaged near axial, quasi-anechoic shows recessed octave 2-5kHz and booming bass in nearfield, surprising for low-tuned reflex
Directivity is low and smooth.
Room response is better than previous, but too much spl at 4-6kHz (red line)
Alexandria is ugly IMO, and overly complicated. Only pluses are sensitivity, high spl capacity and low extension.
Averaged near axial, quasi-anechoic shows recessed octave 2-5kHz and booming bass in nearfield, surprising for low-tuned reflex
Directivity is low and smooth.
Room response is better than previous, but too much spl at 4-6kHz (red line)
Alexandria is ugly IMO, and overly complicated. Only pluses are sensitivity, high spl capacity and low extension.
Juhazi
When I see comments like this, always makes me smile.
Apparently you didn't hear the alexandria.
Maybe you miss the bottom line in the lab report:
As I said at the beginning of this section, there are practical limitations when measuring so large a loudspeaker. While I am confident that my measurements regime fully characterizes the performance of a small speaker (such as KEF's LS50, which I reviewed last month), with a speaker as large as Wilson's Alexandria XLF, the measurements offer suggestions rather than certainties. Note, also, that I don't measure distortion, which in this high-sensitivity speaker is likely to be very low. But overall, this is an impressively well-engineered design. As well as auditioning the Alexandria XLF at Innovative and in Michael's room, last January I had the opportunity to perform extended comparisons between the XLF and the earlier Alexandria X-2 Series 2 at Wilson Audio's headquarters. There is no doubt in my mind that this is the best speaker yet to come from the Utah company, which makes it a very fine speaker indeed.—John Atkinson
no wonder Michael fremer bought the alexandria, he has the alexandria for a long time until he heard the Sasha and the XVX, no wonder since 5 intch driver has better midrange when it comes to speed and clarity, but for bass performance the focal has no second best, you can read it as well.
I have no doubt that measurements has a lot to say but does it really clarify everything? If so you wouldn't see tube manufacturers, or buy dartzeel amplifier.
please remember that all the music that you love was monitored by rogers ls3/5a and it doesn't have the most beautiful measurements, but when you hear them playing music it breaks your heart and makes you fall in love.
When I see comments like this, always makes me smile.
Apparently you didn't hear the alexandria.
Maybe you miss the bottom line in the lab report:
As I said at the beginning of this section, there are practical limitations when measuring so large a loudspeaker. While I am confident that my measurements regime fully characterizes the performance of a small speaker (such as KEF's LS50, which I reviewed last month), with a speaker as large as Wilson's Alexandria XLF, the measurements offer suggestions rather than certainties. Note, also, that I don't measure distortion, which in this high-sensitivity speaker is likely to be very low. But overall, this is an impressively well-engineered design. As well as auditioning the Alexandria XLF at Innovative and in Michael's room, last January I had the opportunity to perform extended comparisons between the XLF and the earlier Alexandria X-2 Series 2 at Wilson Audio's headquarters. There is no doubt in my mind that this is the best speaker yet to come from the Utah company, which makes it a very fine speaker indeed.—John Atkinson
no wonder Michael fremer bought the alexandria, he has the alexandria for a long time until he heard the Sasha and the XVX, no wonder since 5 intch driver has better midrange when it comes to speed and clarity, but for bass performance the focal has no second best, you can read it as well.
I have no doubt that measurements has a lot to say but does it really clarify everything? If so you wouldn't see tube manufacturers, or buy dartzeel amplifier.
please remember that all the music that you love was monitored by rogers ls3/5a and it doesn't have the most beautiful measurements, but when you hear them playing music it breaks your heart and makes you fall in love.
Subjective comments in Stereophile make me laugh. Their praise of small British monitors and LS50 glorifying is from outer space!
No, I have never heard a Wilson Audio speaker. Alexandria is propably ok sounding, but overly complicated and overpriced IMO.
DIY speakers is a very good hobby, have fun!
Quote: "please remember that all the music that you love was monitored by rogers ls3/5a and it doesn't have the most beautiful measurements, but when you hear them playing music it breaks your heart and makes you fall in love."
This is just your imagination, you don't know my music favourites and studios use more serious speakers for music! LS3 was for speech, radio/TV broadcast vans!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LS3/5A
https://www.production-expert.com/production-expert-1/the-history-of-studio-monitoring
No, I have never heard a Wilson Audio speaker. Alexandria is propably ok sounding, but overly complicated and overpriced IMO.
DIY speakers is a very good hobby, have fun!
Quote: "please remember that all the music that you love was monitored by rogers ls3/5a and it doesn't have the most beautiful measurements, but when you hear them playing music it breaks your heart and makes you fall in love."
This is just your imagination, you don't know my music favourites and studios use more serious speakers for music! LS3 was for speech, radio/TV broadcast vans!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LS3/5A
https://www.production-expert.com/production-expert-1/the-history-of-studio-monitoring
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If you can make a good copy of the cabinet you can then try various drivers in there.
A mark audio 5 inch for mids may be an improvement.
You will also need to build the crossover in the original as this is the single biggest source of the sound.
A mark audio 5 inch for mids may be an improvement.
You will also need to build the crossover in the original as this is the single biggest source of the sound.
The problem is the enclosure of this speaker. It is not optimized for acoustical behavior. Any engineer in a relevant field could tell you. So what does make this speaker that?