Got some linear phase filtering going on now, boy howdy is that an improvement. I don't know if I could go back to passive after hearing this.
Rubber washers seemed to have mostly fixed the rattling, can only be heard very faintly with your ear next to the feet and at high spl, not a scenario I see myself doing much so I consider it fixed. 5 new screw holes were added to the woofer as well as some additional mass to the top and bracing in the cabinet. Quite an improvement to my ears and lowered distortion, the elevated area below 400hz in my previous measurement is gone.
I will say I find these speakers difficult to place in my room, I wager it's due to reflections. Imaging is not as stable as I'd like with some phasey holes around the center. Moving closer to the speakers alleviates the issues as does corrective EQ, so I guess I need some treatments up.
Rubber washers seemed to have mostly fixed the rattling, can only be heard very faintly with your ear next to the feet and at high spl, not a scenario I see myself doing much so I consider it fixed. 5 new screw holes were added to the woofer as well as some additional mass to the top and bracing in the cabinet. Quite an improvement to my ears and lowered distortion, the elevated area below 400hz in my previous measurement is gone.
I will say I find these speakers difficult to place in my room, I wager it's due to reflections. Imaging is not as stable as I'd like with some phasey holes around the center. Moving closer to the speakers alleviates the issues as does corrective EQ, so I guess I need some treatments up.
You are quite right about the problem to go back to passive after having it active.
For many the complexity of the passive crossover makes it some religious holy grail. In fact there are very good passive speakers around, but they all can loose a lot of magic, just with a different amp.
Active systems are much more amp friendly, (I exclude tube amps that always complain), so you have a much broader choice.
With prices for some excelent D-amps lower than a high inductance air coil for your woofer (300 Hz...!) in the end you save money on an active set-up.
For example the TDA3255 has simply a stupid price/ performance ratio.
Now how would you feel if you bought or build amps for thousends of $ and invested countless hours in building/ tuning them, and a 50$ Ayima A07 or the like sounds just as good? I'm one of them... So please understand the sometimes fanatic active hater's a bit.
Now, with 150$ (+ power supplies) for 6 channels of amplification, how far do you get with that money buying audio coils, caps and resistors? You can not return the values, that after a few weeks, turn out to be wrong. Maybe playing with passive crossover's is the fun of your life, but from experience I can tell you, sometimes it get's very frustrating, too. I have more coils in my basement than I can carry without breaking my back and countless caps, heavy A/B and class A monos collecting dust, too.
You have experienced how some simple change of crossover filters can impact the sound of your speaker, imagine what number of passive components you would have needed to makes only these different tunes.
Maybe better invest in some nice active crossover, which comes with a million different option, all included at no extra cost. It's 2024, remeber?
For many the complexity of the passive crossover makes it some religious holy grail. In fact there are very good passive speakers around, but they all can loose a lot of magic, just with a different amp.
Active systems are much more amp friendly, (I exclude tube amps that always complain), so you have a much broader choice.
With prices for some excelent D-amps lower than a high inductance air coil for your woofer (300 Hz...!) in the end you save money on an active set-up.
For example the TDA3255 has simply a stupid price/ performance ratio.
Now how would you feel if you bought or build amps for thousends of $ and invested countless hours in building/ tuning them, and a 50$ Ayima A07 or the like sounds just as good? I'm one of them... So please understand the sometimes fanatic active hater's a bit.
Now, with 150$ (+ power supplies) for 6 channels of amplification, how far do you get with that money buying audio coils, caps and resistors? You can not return the values, that after a few weeks, turn out to be wrong. Maybe playing with passive crossover's is the fun of your life, but from experience I can tell you, sometimes it get's very frustrating, too. I have more coils in my basement than I can carry without breaking my back and countless caps, heavy A/B and class A monos collecting dust, too.
You have experienced how some simple change of crossover filters can impact the sound of your speaker, imagine what number of passive components you would have needed to makes only these different tunes.
Maybe better invest in some nice active crossover, which comes with a million different option, all included at no extra cost. It's 2024, remeber?
I happened to listen to that A07 amplifier. Too much voltage gain and mediocre sound with fake NE5532 opamps. Much better with the 2xSparkos SS3602, but that's price overkill for that amp, and a bit harsh sounding. A decent sound was obtained with the 2xOPA1656, but it is still not in the range of a high quality AB class amplifier. I have heard much better implementations of the TPA3255. In order for it to play really well (D class) you need to invest a lot more, especially in the power supply. Purify modules promise a lot, but it doesn't cost $50.
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The fake opamps inside the AYIMA products, not only the A07 or A7 max, are anoying. You are righton that and I didn't even try the amps with them installed. Changed them for real NE5532 when taking it out of the boy. That is quite cheap and anything you should do. Don't spoil it with exotic parts.
The power supply and voltage have a huge impact on the amp. Maybe you found a good mismatch there.
How you quantify amplifier sound quality is a very personal thing. At least 90% of the people I know decide how good an amp is by it's cost, weight, size and the look from the outside.
The power supply and voltage have a huge impact on the amp. Maybe you found a good mismatch there.
How you quantify amplifier sound quality is a very personal thing. At least 90% of the people I know decide how good an amp is by it's cost, weight, size and the look from the outside.
Well, I had two Sparkos dual opamps on hand, purely for testing purposes, with no intention of leaving them in the A07. But the OPA1656 (1655 single) gives very good results in many devices, and it's not some exotic. Fet inputs, low DC offset (unlike NE5532), low distortion and low price.
PS
On A07, the voltage gain should be reduced, the coupling electrolytes should be replaced, and possibly the potentiometer.
PS
On A07, the voltage gain should be reduced, the coupling electrolytes should be replaced, and possibly the potentiometer.
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You can tweak and tune any audio gear you can lay your fingers on. Tbh, iIn most cases I doso, too.
Anyway, these cheap amps have reached a quality level that you had to pay a lot of money for, one or two decades ago. If you have a collection of vintage amps, better don't do any objective A-B comparison.
Another thing is, to stay OT, if you only connect a speaker chassis to these amps, without any caps, coils or resistors, you give them ideal conditions. With the 3255 there is so much power aviable, you can drive any speaker chassis from tweeter to sub with a single, identical amp. Which is a good thing if you go active.
I don't want to point to any cheap power supply, because they don't match safety regulations when they come out of the box. They also produce quite some dirt (without a case). Maybe just a hint: I found some open 36V 7/9A open supplies to be very good suited for D-amp audio. They are around 15$ on Aliexpress. Never use them without some metal case! They are made by the millions and work much better than one would expect. Well suited for audio, where usually is no constant, high load.
If you don't want D-amps, the LM3886 is an (even better) option. You can use it bridged for the low end, if you need the power and have an 8 Ohm woofer.
Of course more expense and and work to build and wire such a 6-channel amp.
One thing about active speaker: You may think about integrating the amp into the speaker cabinet. This is not a good idea imo. Vibration and heat make the electronics life short and hard. It is not that much of a problem to run some wires to your speaker, may it be one or three. You will always have to make some connections if you don't go bluetooth and even then you need a power wire.
Anyway, these cheap amps have reached a quality level that you had to pay a lot of money for, one or two decades ago. If you have a collection of vintage amps, better don't do any objective A-B comparison.
Another thing is, to stay OT, if you only connect a speaker chassis to these amps, without any caps, coils or resistors, you give them ideal conditions. With the 3255 there is so much power aviable, you can drive any speaker chassis from tweeter to sub with a single, identical amp. Which is a good thing if you go active.
I don't want to point to any cheap power supply, because they don't match safety regulations when they come out of the box. They also produce quite some dirt (without a case). Maybe just a hint: I found some open 36V 7/9A open supplies to be very good suited for D-amp audio. They are around 15$ on Aliexpress. Never use them without some metal case! They are made by the millions and work much better than one would expect. Well suited for audio, where usually is no constant, high load.
If you don't want D-amps, the LM3886 is an (even better) option. You can use it bridged for the low end, if you need the power and have an 8 Ohm woofer.
Of course more expense and and work to build and wire such a 6-channel amp.
One thing about active speaker: You may think about integrating the amp into the speaker cabinet. This is not a good idea imo. Vibration and heat make the electronics life short and hard. It is not that much of a problem to run some wires to your speaker, may it be one or three. You will always have to make some connections if you don't go bluetooth and even then you need a power wire.
You just need to compare cheap with cheap, not good with cheap. Class D in one price category has already surpassed AB in terms of measured characteristics. Then, for multi-band active speakers, there is no urgent need to use very good amplifiers, since the amplifier does not need to work across the entire frequency band for the complex impedance of passive filters.
In the middle price category, active speakers outperform passive speakers in terms of objectively measured indicators.
I do not have statistics on the entire speaker market, but judging by my modest observations, the number of active speakers is growing steadily.
In my opinion, if we talk about independent production and configuration of speakers. That active AC is a very correct way, a way that allows you to get the best possible result in a short time with minimal financial costs. Passive speakers are very clumsy in terms of fine tuning, which greatly complicates the process of finding the optimal setting. But in general, if a person has figured out how to make passive speakers, then it makes no difference to him whether it is an active speaker or a passive speaker, he will make a good speaker in any case. For a beginner, it is best to start with an active speaker.
Yes that's right. The possibilities are much greater, and mistakes are easily corrected with DSP. In my opinion, the biggest problem is not amplifiers, but DSP. There is no good DSP for a little money. And analog active crossovers are not flexible at all.
First: because hifi/audio is a rather conservative scene and market.
Second: because many like combining speakers, cables and amps and tweaking here and there. The industry also likes that.
What would happen if everyone knew that
- the room has much/most influence on sound
- active dsp controlled systems solve many issues (and don't even need to be expensive)
- effect of spending lots of money for cables and amps is mainly psychologic?
It's all relative. Much depends initially on your requirements for the chipboard and amplifier.
For example, I abandoned the analog input in favor of a digital one and used a power PWM DAC, as a result I got a fairly simple system with characteristics quite acceptable to me. On its basis, I implemented an active three-way speaker, which very easily outperformed the HECO PCX-1.
As I understand the state of affairs, the most difficult thing about an active speaker is to understand how to find the optimal way to configure it.
Much depends on the position of the speakers and speakers, much depends on the room, and the methods of measuring the frequency response. This is the difficulty. There is no simple and universal method for finding the optimal way to configure an active speaker. Not every person is able to find an acceptable way to configure the speakers. Some leave this path disappointed. I was lucky and quickly understood how to configure the speakers in such a way as to get the desired result. Unfortunately, my path is not universal, and my path is more amateurish, i.e. a professional in his field will do even better, but one way or another I got the sound that I like better and I felt the flexibility of active speakers, i.e. at any time I can reconfigure the speakers in any other direction.
There is a level of convenience to a passive speaker... just run a speaker cable to each speaker, and that is it. With an active speaker with built-in amps, each speaker needs a signal cable and a AC power cable. This means another layer of extension cords and power strips. A step up in complexity is the active speaker with stand-alone amps... now there are 3 to 5 wires of some sort going to each speaker. For a music lover in a residential environment, this may be just too much.
Another reason for the continued dominance of passive speakers in the residential setting is the inertia of "sunk cost of established infrastructure". A person who already has a 2-channel amp, whether a separate amp or built into a receiver, is usually reluctant to go active. They feel like they are wasting money on new amps (inside the speaker) when they already own a perfectly suitable amp.
Eventually, I think active speakers will become the dominant type found in residential settings, just as they are now the dominant type found in recording studios. But it may take 25 years for the process to happen. But even then, there will always be a small but dedicated segment who prefer their big stand alone amps and the passive speakers that go with it.
The market for studio monitors and PA speaker is dominated by active systems.
If we start a discussion about the bad sound of DSP's we will end up with a record player, because only analog is 100% quality.
Which will get ridiculous. Almost any recording you listen to today has passed countless digital processings.
The DIYS speaker market is dominated by passive because any carpenter can work with some caps and coils. Active systems need much more knowledge and great care has to be taken. One wire done wrong and the whole project is not working, blows up or electrocutes the builder.
Which creates new legal problems, because in the EU your are basically not even allowed to install a mains plug without certification. Here we ignore this, because quite some members here know what they do.
Then, there is the marketing side of the game. The prices for passive crossover parts are ridiculous high, making them extremely profitable for the trade. If you are a known developer of DIYS speaker, you basically get these parts for free. Which keeps the passive speaker alive in the commercial DIYS area.
Next is the consumer HIFI, where customers are used to buy amps as the most important part of the hobby. Bragging rights about the heavyest amp in town have always been a motive.
If we start a discussion about the bad sound of DSP's we will end up with a record player, because only analog is 100% quality.
Which will get ridiculous. Almost any recording you listen to today has passed countless digital processings.
The DIYS speaker market is dominated by passive because any carpenter can work with some caps and coils. Active systems need much more knowledge and great care has to be taken. One wire done wrong and the whole project is not working, blows up or electrocutes the builder.
Which creates new legal problems, because in the EU your are basically not even allowed to install a mains plug without certification. Here we ignore this, because quite some members here know what they do.
Then, there is the marketing side of the game. The prices for passive crossover parts are ridiculous high, making them extremely profitable for the trade. If you are a known developer of DIYS speaker, you basically get these parts for free. Which keeps the passive speaker alive in the commercial DIYS area.
Next is the consumer HIFI, where customers are used to buy amps as the most important part of the hobby. Bragging rights about the heavyest amp in town have always been a motive.
I agree with most of what a few of you have written about this. In the PRO arena, active speakers have been dominating for a long time, and that's clear. In home conditions, active speakers, probably with wireless signal delivery, will mostly be chosen by those who do not change their equipment often, or who want something minimalist, that plays for them without taking up a lot of space for other devices (except speakers). For everyone else, we know what will happen. I don't believe that active speakers will ever overcome these classic passive speakers. There are too many audiophiles who likes that. We are also witnessing the return of vinyl records, and tubes are being used more and more in audio devices. After all, music is a mix of art and technique, and so are our playback devices.
Even if it is OT: Change the NE5532 in Aiyima amps for a real one. They are ugly sounding fakes, messing up the sound. When the musical content get's more complicated, more instruments and voices playing combined, the sound just seems to muddy up and the stage breaks down.
So get a real NE5532 and you will hear what the little amp can do. The NE5532 is in no way an inferior part, even at the low price point around 1$.
Maybe the opamp is sales politics, as they sell the amp with different opamps at a premium, making the expensive version clearly audible..
So get a real NE5532 and you will hear what the little amp can do. The NE5532 is in no way an inferior part, even at the low price point around 1$.
Maybe the opamp is sales politics, as they sell the amp with different opamps at a premium, making the expensive version clearly audible..
It already sounds great to me, why would I mod it?
Not at all my experience with the amp, or really any amp. This getting into snake oil territory for me.
Not at all my experience with the amp, or really any amp. This getting into snake oil territory for me.
If you are satisfied with the fake NE5532, where the TEXAS logo looks like Montana, there is no need for you to do anything. Nothing wrong with that.
I was quite disapointed with the amp, considering the positive reviews. The change to a real NE5532 was instandly audible. Not in a hour long listening test, but after a few seconds into songs, played from a CD.
I use a good full range speaker for such a test, imo these have the lowest influence on amp performance. Even as I don't see full range as the best concept in general.
Changing a fake part in Chinese products for a real one that meets specs has nothing to do with snake oil. The construction of the amp was done (not in China, but the US or Europe) for this part. They saved maybe 90 Cent on the amp by using two fake parts. I corrected this. No oil dripping from the bottle.
I do not advice you to put some Burson unicorns for 120$ or other overpriced stuff in a 50$ amp and promise wonders, but the fake part is simply wrong and 2$ is a risk anyone can take. Just don't buy the "new" opamp on ebay, find a reputable seller that definetely sources them from some TI distributor. Mouser, Digikey etc. You will instandly see the difference in the chips logo.
I was quite disapointed with the amp, considering the positive reviews. The change to a real NE5532 was instandly audible. Not in a hour long listening test, but after a few seconds into songs, played from a CD.
I use a good full range speaker for such a test, imo these have the lowest influence on amp performance. Even as I don't see full range as the best concept in general.
Changing a fake part in Chinese products for a real one that meets specs has nothing to do with snake oil. The construction of the amp was done (not in China, but the US or Europe) for this part. They saved maybe 90 Cent on the amp by using two fake parts. I corrected this. No oil dripping from the bottle.
I do not advice you to put some Burson unicorns for 120$ or other overpriced stuff in a 50$ amp and promise wonders, but the fake part is simply wrong and 2$ is a risk anyone can take. Just don't buy the "new" opamp on ebay, find a reputable seller that definetely sources them from some TI distributor. Mouser, Digikey etc. You will instandly see the difference in the chips logo.