Hi,
what if you increase listening distance, would image get more stable and phasey gone?
I'm speculating your speakers are good and room acoustics is in check already, and that you are listening at close enough proximity where direct sound dominates over early reflections so that your auditory system pays attention to the sound. If you increase listening distance, the auditory system doesn't separate the sound from overall noise in the room anymore and what you perceive is more stable roomy kind of sound in the portion of room where the speakers are at. No phasey, but no clarity either, or pin point localization for example.
Now, in this case the phasey feel to sound you describe would be good thing in my book. While it could be some issue in your speakers or with room acoustics, I speculate the phasey sound is direct sound from both speakers reaching both ears, which makes a comb filter which is very easy to hear when early reflections are not filling in the perception. This is feature of two speaker stereo system and readily audible when direct sound dominates over room sound. You can utilize it to your advantage like so:
- if and when you want to hear the recording as is, it's now easy to gravitate to best listening spot exactly equidistant to speakers as you can clearly hear when you are at it. Move your head either side and you hear the combfilter change. Local room doesn't influence the sound much as per definition, if you hear the comb filter.
- if and when you do not want this, if you want more relaxed local room influenced spacious kind of sound, increase listening distance by moving further from speakers and comb filter is gone, early reflections fill it in.
- important thing is, you can change between these two listening distances at will!
In my setup there is quite clear transition between the two sounds, it happens in one step, like stepping inside the sound where I'm immersed perceptually, or stepping out where the sound is now in front of me in the local room, kinda. I know where this transition happens and can put my listening chair there at the transition. If I want to zoom into the sound I can lean forward and if I want more relaxed sound I lean back. Sometimes I want to get drawn in and full attention for music, while sometimes I want it relaxing and more background kind of thing, brain not involved too much.
Since I know this, I can utilize it to my advantage and I think this is the cause for circle of confusion, people not knowing there is possibility to affect sound in this way by just changing listening distance a bit. Knowing this it's not much easier to optimize stereo system positioning and not just that, but there is ability to listen envelopment, hear contribution of early reflections, learn that some records are clearly optimized for either while some for both, and so on. There is no need to have just one sound, because there is two and can change at will.
If you experiment with this stuff please comment, as this is speculation by me. If it's like so and new stuff to you, you've just upgraded your listening skill to new level: Accompany it reading David Griesinger studies on Limit of Localization Distance and Proximity, and now you've connected logic to perception and vice versa
I think most people listen the far listening distance local room influenced spacious sound, because it's low hanging fruit, but will never have peak clarity, engagement and that sort of stuff some people might look for, as brain is not paying attention by definition and they never get full stereo experience avoiding the close enough listening distance because it's phasey and not roomy and so on, requires much more attention to placement and directivity and room acoustics. In this sense you are correct, room acoustics and positioning can help with the sound, not with the comb filter but with envelopment, and hard to make good in domestic room I think. If you want peak experience, you want your brain maximally involved paying attention, providing your perception with all the detail and envelopment and so on. Utilizing both sides of the transition you can listen envelopment for example, AB it on and off moving a little, which enables you to really tune the setup. For the comb filter, I think you need to just accept it, or backup your listening chair. Or, use third speaker for real center
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I did read everything there, and found that I experienced much of the same, but also found that rolling off the top end a bit more and adding a sort of BBC dip mid range filter pretty much made the phasey sound go away completely. 2300hz q=2 and -1db fixed it entirely. It also pulled the center image to the center, a little confused as to why this filter made such a difference.
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cool. If you feel like experimenting with the EQ and perhaps other tricks, I think wesayso has tried many many ways to help with the crosstalk. There are many posts in his thread https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...ers-a-25-driver-full-range-line-array.242171/ , try searching with 'crosstalk' or 'comb' and you should find most of it.
Sensitivity to it might vary, or perhaps our playback systems vary, anyway I'm not bothered by it so I haven't tried any fixes to it personally. I see only two real fixes for this, true center or baffle between speakers starting from yer nose. Perhaps there is some tricks that eases it enough. Have fun!
ps. top end is really ruthless here, if it's balanced too bright it's very very obvious on the close proximity, the comb. Wavelength gets so short it's just woosh woosh sound with very little movement, especially if the hotness of top comes from directivity (beaming) it makes the sound quite nervous in away. I feel similarly from edge diffraction, sound feels just restless, changing all the time with listening postion. Adjusting toe-in and base width of speakers help to balance top end for far and close listening. If it doesn't help, or any other trick like better balance, I think there is no other option than to try some other tweeter and implementation for better directivity on top, what ever that is.
Sensitivity to it might vary, or perhaps our playback systems vary, anyway I'm not bothered by it so I haven't tried any fixes to it personally. I see only two real fixes for this, true center or baffle between speakers starting from yer nose. Perhaps there is some tricks that eases it enough. Have fun!
ps. top end is really ruthless here, if it's balanced too bright it's very very obvious on the close proximity, the comb. Wavelength gets so short it's just woosh woosh sound with very little movement, especially if the hotness of top comes from directivity (beaming) it makes the sound quite nervous in away. I feel similarly from edge diffraction, sound feels just restless, changing all the time with listening postion. Adjusting toe-in and base width of speakers help to balance top end for far and close listening. If it doesn't help, or any other trick like better balance, I think there is no other option than to try some other tweeter and implementation for better directivity on top, what ever that is.
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A lot of full ranges I see have rising impedance towards the top end, which would result in a boosting of HF with load dependent amp like the A07. Did you account for this? The a07 to me sounds rather bad when paired with a speaker that "triggers" it's depedency, but sounds perfectly fine on speakers that maintain low impedance through the top end. If the driver is 8ohms nominal, it will likely exhibit rising HF response from the get go with the a07.
In my listening experiences with the a07 and a speaker that doesn't trigger load dependency, I have never experienced anything you described in your post. For this sort of stuff I absolutely require objective data to show that the change has an actual effect. I mean no offense but subjective impressions on this topic aren't even remotely adequate for me to even consider such a modification.
I think you don't understand the point or simply are a troll.
A very scientifc point. The Opamp that has major influence on the sound is in front of the power amp. The inductance of the speaker is not affected.
This NE5532 is a fake IC. It has written something that is supposed to look like a Texas instruments logo scraped in the top and a part number, but inside is some industry op amp, usually used in products like washing machines for keeping a sensor happy, but not audio. The fake is well known and I have pulled a handfull out of very different Chinese audio parts. They sell for a few Cent in China, a real one is more expensive.
All I do is to change it for a part with the same number, but one 100% made by Texas Instruments.
Maybe read this thread and then compare your NE5532 to the pictures.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/fake-op-amp-or-not.393883/page-3#post-7544351
A very scientifc point. The Opamp that has major influence on the sound is in front of the power amp. The inductance of the speaker is not affected.
This NE5532 is a fake IC. It has written something that is supposed to look like a Texas instruments logo scraped in the top and a part number, but inside is some industry op amp, usually used in products like washing machines for keeping a sensor happy, but not audio. The fake is well known and I have pulled a handfull out of very different Chinese audio parts. They sell for a few Cent in China, a real one is more expensive.
All I do is to change it for a part with the same number, but one 100% made by Texas Instruments.
Maybe read this thread and then compare your NE5532 to the pictures.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/fake-op-amp-or-not.393883/page-3#post-7544351
I understand the part is a fake, I just don't think changing the op amp for the real thing is going to make a difference. If it does, it would be pretty easily measurable, and without seeing that info I just don't care at all.
Back on topic. Been trying to get these outside to measure but it seems like it's just going to be raining here for a bit, and I've come down with some bug that has my energy zapped.
Of course it will. The simplest thing is to try it yourself, if you don't already believe us.
Last time I'll reiterate this one, I really only bother with mods if there is a documented case showing that it will improve things. I refuse to waste my time and energy on random suggestions with no evidence. I really don't know why this is so difficult for people to understand.
That's all I asked for, not sure why it was so hard for the other users to understand why I requested this info.
I am not in court in front of a judge that I have to prove anything to anyone. This is a DIY forum for hobbyists, you got some friendly advice about that amp based on testing various opamps instead of those fakes. If you're looking for some kind of "documented case", you don't want to waste time and so, please forget about everything. Let it be as if I didn't write anything.
Gladly.
Sorry but the SNR on this forum can really favor the noise sometimes. I didn't even ask for opinions on the amps and when stated that I wasn't interested in the mod, you pressed further.
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Everything is OK, it was offtopic. The A07 amplifier was mentioned, I had it for listening, my task was to improve the sound a bit if possible. Since I have a lot of opamps in stock for my various needs, that's what I did. I mean, I do it all the time, I'm never satisfied with the default state.
I think it's just largely related to my crossover atm. I was able to get some ok data into vcad and lets just say my electrical tasks certainly didn't line up with my acoustical response. Having developed some new filters that look good in vcad things sound much better and the phasey-ness is all but gone. I'm getting the sort of wall of sound that doesn't change as you move that I'm used to.
I'm going to wager my woofer to mid is off as well, since I don't have to invert the mid with 2nd order to get a good response. I'll try to tackle that next. Too bad I'm sick atm though and my hearing switches between no highs and no lows by the hour, fun stuff.
I was curious as another member shared some data. I got some replacements from mouser. No idea if the stock are fake are not, hard to tell. The ones that came with the amp are marked with red sharpie.