Step 7: Colour sanding is what makes the difference between a good paint job and an awesome paint job. It's what custom car builders do to get a flawless mirror surface.
More sanding! Wet sanding with 400 grit if it's roughish, 600 grit if it's fairly smooth. I use a spray bottle with clean water and a drop of dish detergent (for lube). Using a rubber block and long, even back and forth strokes to sand the surface completely smooth. Next is 1000 grit paper, the finally 2000 grit. This takes some time.
If you are going for the showroom shine, avoid sanding the corners, as you will burn through the finish quickly. Lately I've developed an appreciation of the matt finish, so I lightly sand the corners with folded 2000 grit.
Once done, the paint will appear dull, but VERY smooth. If you are like me, this is enough, except for a light rubbed on coat of mineral oil, buffed off with a dry cloth. Very stately.
More sanding! Wet sanding with 400 grit if it's roughish, 600 grit if it's fairly smooth. I use a spray bottle with clean water and a drop of dish detergent (for lube). Using a rubber block and long, even back and forth strokes to sand the surface completely smooth. Next is 1000 grit paper, the finally 2000 grit. This takes some time.
If you are going for the showroom shine, avoid sanding the corners, as you will burn through the finish quickly. Lately I've developed an appreciation of the matt finish, so I lightly sand the corners with folded 2000 grit.
Once done, the paint will appear dull, but VERY smooth. If you are like me, this is enough, except for a light rubbed on coat of mineral oil, buffed off with a dry cloth. Very stately.
Step 8: Polishing with a buffing machine is fast and produces the best results, but it takes practice. The corners are the weakest area, and the buffer can burn through the paint layer quite quickly. Otherwise, it's just like waxing a car.
I've used a number of different waxes, but have settled on Meguiar's liquid wax. I find this to be very long lasting and gives that knock your eyes out shine instantly.
I hope this will be helpful to someone. I've spent a long time and did much research to know this process. Main point: be patient, and have fun.
Shin: Sorry for hi-jacking your thread.
I've used a number of different waxes, but have settled on Meguiar's liquid wax. I find this to be very long lasting and gives that knock your eyes out shine instantly.
I hope this will be helpful to someone. I've spent a long time and did much research to know this process. Main point: be patient, and have fun.
Shin: Sorry for hi-jacking your thread.
MJL21193 said:
I think people here like jumping right to the point of 'flaming' before actually thinking through what the person said.
Shin never said you were lying, he accepts this process works for you, even goes as far as saying 'good for you' seemingly without sarcasm. Its just doing this kind of job, in the wet and damp UK doesn't work for him. Indeed I have never once seen anyone comment on 'telegraphing' showing/occurring under veneer, thick veneer at that, but for me, in our damp climate.... and this IS moisture absorption being faster in the end grain then the flat side.
Bob Barkto said:
Bob - I think these two points you're making are really important. If this is the case, then it does explain a lot - I have certainly seen the creeping problems than Shin is seeing, having used 2k high build primer.
I don't know how chemically similar epoxy paints and marine epoxy resin are, but (limited) experience so far is indicating that a complete covering of marine epoxy (what would be on both the inside and outside of a speaker box) might work.
MJL21193 said:
What are you talking about? I never said anything like that.
I'm don't come here to argue and you keep putting me in a defensive stance with your accusations and sniping. You get back what you give out pal.
And that you think just because this worked for you is a guarantee for someone halfway around the world using a different paint system in a different climate and with different MDF stock is a little shortsighted.
If someone came upto me and said "Ant, I tried that veneering and it didn't work". I'd be fine with that. What I wouldn't do is assume they don't know what they're doing just because it worked for me and then dismiss whatever they did find suitable as unnecessary. I even suggested folks try your method first, which shows I'm at least considering it useful information.
When I started this thread I was happy in the knowledge that I'd finally found something for the problem and wished to share that with others. You came in, objected to most it and have had a general condescending and argumentative tone throughout - which your still persisting with. People like you just make me think twice about doing this sort of stuff. If you've got a method that works then give it but don't pull apart someone elses at the same time though. As I said right at the beginning of my first post in thread, there's no one correct method and that's been proven because you feel 'magical cures' are unnecessary and I need them because without just doesn't work for me.
Feel free to be a bit more open minded about this.
MJL21193 said:Shin: Sorry for hi-jacking your thread.
Nothing to apologise for. Nobody own threads in a public forum. I started it with the intention of helping others who might be curious as to one possible solution to a problem I see folks mentioning from time to time. I also hoped others would provide what worked for them too so as a selection of methods were described in one thread instead of having to wade through the search facility. So I think a thankyou is in order for outlining all the steps you go to combat this problem..
5th element said:
ShinOBIWAN said:
My comment was more to do with your remark after the one I quoted, that said "to avoid moisture store them in stasis", and the general dismissive attitude toward my ideas from the start. I'm sorry if I ruffled anyone's feathers.
I think that if anyone, anywhere in the world does it the way I outlined, it will work. I didn't invent this process.
What attracted me to this thread in the first place was the mention of PVA glue + water as a sealer. I've attacked this idea wherever I see it, and especially when it's used on MDF. I've "pulled apart" nothing else that you've said, I made no mention of you veneering and in general, have been very factual about what I have to say.
Shin, I've seen your work and it's first-rate. Keep up the good work, you are an asset to the DIY community.
Mongo, go sit in time-out corner.
No, you haven't been bad, I just need to do something.
for our discussion the most important measure is "vapor transmission"...urethanes come in many formulations...and the vapor transmission rates vary from poor to great...some urethanes are formulated to increase their vapor transmission rates...some urethanes are made to inhibit vapor transmission...so in the same type of material the vapor transmission rate can be at both ends of the scale...
I believe "water resistant" is an indication that they won't melt in the presence of water.
I believe water "proof" is a better description of the quality that would be of value here. The use of the term "vapor barrier" by makers of these materials is in effect an admission that they allow the passage of moisture...to some degree.
No, you haven't been bad, I just need to do something.
for our discussion the most important measure is "vapor transmission"...urethanes come in many formulations...and the vapor transmission rates vary from poor to great...some urethanes are formulated to increase their vapor transmission rates...some urethanes are made to inhibit vapor transmission...so in the same type of material the vapor transmission rate can be at both ends of the scale...
I believe "water resistant" is an indication that they won't melt in the presence of water.
I believe water "proof" is a better description of the quality that would be of value here. The use of the term "vapor barrier" by makers of these materials is in effect an admission that they allow the passage of moisture...to some degree.
No, it won't.
It will stop water. So now we can shower with our loudspeakers.
It will slow water vapor penetration, not stop it.
Some short term swings in RH will be mitigated to the point they are no concern. Seasonal changes of a duration of a few days will have as much effect as if there was no finish at all.
There is no "..good as saying".
It either does the job or it doesn't.
It will stop water. So now we can shower with our loudspeakers.
It will slow water vapor penetration, not stop it.
Some short term swings in RH will be mitigated to the point they are no concern. Seasonal changes of a duration of a few days will have as much effect as if there was no finish at all.
There is no "..good as saying".
It either does the job or it doesn't.
MJL21193 said:
If the resin is the same formulation the performance will be nearly identical if the compound is not excessively modified. The only usual differences are additions like pigments, UV blockers, flow and viscosity enhancements. Nothing that seriously degrades the basic performance when used in moderation.
Performance should be the same as far as being a good moisture barrier. Properly applied of course.
Coating both sides is a must. Moisture has little regard for our measure of space!
Performance should be the same as far as being a good moisture barrier. Properly applied of course.
Coating both sides is a must. Moisture has little regard for our measure of space!
sploo said:
Just a point of reference for the thread...
I'm sitting here looking across the room at a curved sided box I put together last fall.
It's veneered with a sawn, fairly thick veneer.
The sides are constructed of layers of laminated 1/8" and 1/4" MDF and HDF respectively.
Top and bottom are solid 3/4" MDF. The sides extend up, level to the top.
I can barely see the joints now that the humidity is returning.
Over the dry winter the thing was an eyesore.
The solid MDF top is shrinking and expanding in thickness with changes in RH.
I'm sitting here looking across the room at a curved sided box I put together last fall.
It's veneered with a sawn, fairly thick veneer.
The sides are constructed of layers of laminated 1/8" and 1/4" MDF and HDF respectively.
Top and bottom are solid 3/4" MDF. The sides extend up, level to the top.
I can barely see the joints now that the humidity is returning.
Over the dry winter the thing was an eyesore.
The solid MDF top is shrinking and expanding in thickness with changes in RH.
5th element said:
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