From my experience, a pair of 4 ohm 20 or 25 Watt exciters in series on each panel should be fine for the plywood panels, as long as you don't expect them to be super loud.
That would work for the PS foam panels as well, but you could indeed get away with less I'm sure.
Eric
I found an interesting article, see below. Has anyone come across a patent for this?
Designing a world of immersive sound : NewsCenter
Designing a world of immersive sound : NewsCenter
Found them here:
Search Patents - Justia Patents Search
Was easy to find, now will be going down a rabbit hole to find other patents!
Search Patents - Justia Patents Search
Was easy to find, now will be going down a rabbit hole to find other patents!
57buick.
The first questions I'd ask is what do you want your panel to do .
Fill a large room or small ?
Run full range without a sub or xo to a sub?
Play loud rock music or something lighter?
Large panels or something that does not take over the room?
Heavy panels will need more power.
Light panels only need about a 10watt exciter for loud volumes but i would not recommend any lower wattage.
For experimenting I would go for a 25watt exciter as they are not too heavy for the xps and would also drive a ply panel.
Whether you feel the need to use two exciters per panel is up to you
There are quite a few different designs of panels to experiment with depending on what you want to achieve.
Steve
The first questions I'd ask is what do you want your panel to do .
Fill a large room or small ?
Run full range without a sub or xo to a sub?
Play loud rock music or something lighter?
Large panels or something that does not take over the room?
Heavy panels will need more power.
Light panels only need about a 10watt exciter for loud volumes but i would not recommend any lower wattage.
For experimenting I would go for a 25watt exciter as they are not too heavy for the xps and would also drive a ply panel.
Whether you feel the need to use two exciters per panel is up to you
There are quite a few different designs of panels to experiment with depending on what you want to achieve.
Steve
Well I have been experimenting with 2x2 XPS 1" thick with Dayton Audio DAEX32QMB-4 Quad Feet Mega Bass 32mm Exciter 40W 4 Ohm.
I curved the corners, sanded both sides, coated with 50/50 glue and water mounted the exciters by the 2/5 and 3/5 rule.
They sound pretty good but lacking a lot of mid range compared to highs. Im not an audiphile so I dont have measuring equipment and all that. But I love all kinds of music from jazz to metal and everything in between. Big Beatles fan.
This is just for my garage listening to my mp3 music on itunes. Trying to figure out what im missing to make it sound fuller.
I have bought some 2x3 5mm birch ply to experiment with later. But I was hoping these XPS panels would be good for my daughters room just free hanging from ceiling with fishing line. But I gotta get them sounding a little more even across the frequencies somehow. ANy advice is appreciated. Im totally new to this stuff
I curved the corners, sanded both sides, coated with 50/50 glue and water mounted the exciters by the 2/5 and 3/5 rule.
They sound pretty good but lacking a lot of mid range compared to highs. Im not an audiphile so I dont have measuring equipment and all that. But I love all kinds of music from jazz to metal and everything in between. Big Beatles fan.
This is just for my garage listening to my mp3 music on itunes. Trying to figure out what im missing to make it sound fuller.
I have bought some 2x3 5mm birch ply to experiment with later. But I was hoping these XPS panels would be good for my daughters room just free hanging from ceiling with fishing line. But I gotta get them sounding a little more even across the frequencies somehow. ANy advice is appreciated. Im totally new to this stuff
Ok I downloaded an audio spektrum analyzer on my iphone and am playing an mp3 of pink noise and this is what it looks like. As far as I can tell it looks like i am dropping in the lower range from 80 to 250 and the highs roll off at 8k
I am using a sub, the music sounds pretty good but a bit too brassy or tinny and lacking the lower midrange? It surprises me it sounds harsh in the highs but according to this it looks like I am lacking highs? Im a bit confused These xps panels are just hanging from fishing line a couple inches away from wall. Do i need to play around with foam on edges or maybe dampening in certain areas?
I am using a sub, the music sounds pretty good but a bit too brassy or tinny and lacking the lower midrange? It surprises me it sounds harsh in the highs but according to this it looks like I am lacking highs? Im a bit confused These xps panels are just hanging from fishing line a couple inches away from wall. Do i need to play around with foam on edges or maybe dampening in certain areas?
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57buick.
Veleric has shown measurements of xps that start to roll off above about 3k or so,so your not doing too bad.
Also I have mentioned many Times on this site and for many years on audio circle about the classic dip in response in the 100 to 400hz that can appear in the room response.
This can give the panels a very tinny sound,this I why I use my low end drivers to cover this area,rolling off the low end driver anywhere between 100 to 400hz depending on where the dip is.
The stretched canvas artist panel mentioned on this site(sorry can't remember the name of the member ) is probably the best all round full range panel I have come across so far ,that is of reasonable size and good sounding and is also pretty cheep from eBay,I got 4 panels for about £8.
This panel didn't suffer from the dip in the lower midrange,if I remember rightly.
All the best.
Steve.
Veleric has shown measurements of xps that start to roll off above about 3k or so,so your not doing too bad.
Also I have mentioned many Times on this site and for many years on audio circle about the classic dip in response in the 100 to 400hz that can appear in the room response.
This can give the panels a very tinny sound,this I why I use my low end drivers to cover this area,rolling off the low end driver anywhere between 100 to 400hz depending on where the dip is.
The stretched canvas artist panel mentioned on this site(sorry can't remember the name of the member ) is probably the best all round full range panel I have come across so far ,that is of reasonable size and good sounding and is also pretty cheep from eBay,I got 4 panels for about £8.
This panel didn't suffer from the dip in the lower midrange,if I remember rightly.
All the best.
Steve.
Like many people here, I saw the Tech Ingredients videos then found this thread. After a lot of studying and procrastinating, I finally took the plunge.
I went with 2 x4’ x ¼” sheets of birch plywood. I liked how the wood panels sounded in the TI video. Besides it’s impossible to get a 4x8 sheet of XPS into my Corolla. Other than drilling a couple holes in them so I could put wire through them to suspend them, I haven’t done any modifications to the boards such as curving the corners.
The first exciters I attached were the DAEX 25FHE-4. They are 4 ohm and I have an 8 ohm receiver so I put 4 ohm resistors in between the amp and the exciters. The panels sounded like a good TV speaker. Nothing to write home about. Out of curiosity, I took the resistors out of the circuit and tried the panels again. The sound was worse so I put the resistors back.
Then I added a DAEX 30HESF-4 to each panel. Since I still had the resistors in place I hooked up the exciters in parallel. Adding a second exciter to each panel improved the sound quality immensely.
Placement of all the exciters was determined by hooking them up and sliding them around on the panel until I found the most pleasing sound.
I affixed the exciters to the board with a 3M double-sided tape that is not as strong as the tape that comes on the exciters. This allows me to move things around until I settle on the exciters’ final placement.
The midrange can be pretty thin but it’s not too objectionable. When I listen to videos of people just talking, the voices sound less present than using my 90's era Advent Heritage speakers. This could be the result of room response Spedge mentioned in the previous comment.
String bass sounds OK as long as the player stays away from the lowest notes. Something with a very pronounced and thumpy bass like some Taylor Swift and even some 60s music like The Doors, Herman’s Hermits or Kinks causes such unpleasant buzzing it sounds like the exciters are going to self-destruct. A subwoofer would be nice.
I also suspect burn-in is happening. The sound seems to be improving the more I use the speakers.
There’s certainly more work to do but that’s my story so far.
Bob
I went with 2 x4’ x ¼” sheets of birch plywood. I liked how the wood panels sounded in the TI video. Besides it’s impossible to get a 4x8 sheet of XPS into my Corolla. Other than drilling a couple holes in them so I could put wire through them to suspend them, I haven’t done any modifications to the boards such as curving the corners.
The first exciters I attached were the DAEX 25FHE-4. They are 4 ohm and I have an 8 ohm receiver so I put 4 ohm resistors in between the amp and the exciters. The panels sounded like a good TV speaker. Nothing to write home about. Out of curiosity, I took the resistors out of the circuit and tried the panels again. The sound was worse so I put the resistors back.
Then I added a DAEX 30HESF-4 to each panel. Since I still had the resistors in place I hooked up the exciters in parallel. Adding a second exciter to each panel improved the sound quality immensely.
Placement of all the exciters was determined by hooking them up and sliding them around on the panel until I found the most pleasing sound.
I affixed the exciters to the board with a 3M double-sided tape that is not as strong as the tape that comes on the exciters. This allows me to move things around until I settle on the exciters’ final placement.
The midrange can be pretty thin but it’s not too objectionable. When I listen to videos of people just talking, the voices sound less present than using my 90's era Advent Heritage speakers. This could be the result of room response Spedge mentioned in the previous comment.
String bass sounds OK as long as the player stays away from the lowest notes. Something with a very pronounced and thumpy bass like some Taylor Swift and even some 60s music like The Doors, Herman’s Hermits or Kinks causes such unpleasant buzzing it sounds like the exciters are going to self-destruct. A subwoofer would be nice.
I also suspect burn-in is happening. The sound seems to be improving the more I use the speakers.
There’s certainly more work to do but that’s my story so far.
Bob
Hi Bob.
An unpleasant buzzing doesn't sound good, are the lead out cables unbalancing the exciters causing them to wobble as they are vibrating in and out.
Are you overdriving them in the low end,same as above.
If it is the panel buzzing you could have a loose ply.
Best way to trace the buzz would be maybe get a 3ft or so of garden Hose or something similar, one end to your ear and the other end to move around where you think the buzzing is coming from.
The wires must never touch the panel obviously.
Hopefully the garden Hose will do the trick?
All the best
Steve.
An unpleasant buzzing doesn't sound good, are the lead out cables unbalancing the exciters causing them to wobble as they are vibrating in and out.
Are you overdriving them in the low end,same as above.
If it is the panel buzzing you could have a loose ply.
Best way to trace the buzz would be maybe get a 3ft or so of garden Hose or something similar, one end to your ear and the other end to move around where you think the buzzing is coming from.
The wires must never touch the panel obviously.
Hopefully the garden Hose will do the trick?
All the best
Steve.
Hi Bob, you can hook the exciters up in series and omit the resistors. That will present an impedance of 8 ohm to your amplifier.
Im experimenting with 18x24 canvas from the art store. I coated the back with PPG gripper arylic primer and also used the gripper to paste a circle of 3 ply birch to back to epoxy the exciter too. Just holding the exciter on there by hand sounds great. Once this drys tomorrow Ill try hooking them up and get the full effect and see where they are at.
Im thinking im gonna try a set with 2 exciters so I can wire them in series for my 8ohm receiver.
I can't decide though should I paste them on 2 separate pieces of wood or just one longer piece of wood?
Im thinking im gonna try a set with 2 exciters so I can wire them in series for my 8ohm receiver.
I can't decide though should I paste them on 2 separate pieces of wood or just one longer piece of wood?
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57buick.
I used pva ,2mm bulsa ply 6x4inch ,the frame was about 18x12inches,the panel was placed in the centre of the picture frame,the exciter was slightly offset on the ply ,not sure this was necessary,as the canvas would dampen the panel anyway ?and having everything centrally mounted would balance the canvas ?
I covered the whole panel canvas in thinned pva ,this helped stiffen the canvas and also tightened the surface through shrinkage .
I did also cover the front surface up to an inch from the fame in cascamite which made the surface very rigid ,but over time it cracked badly and ruined the panel.
I could do a recording of the panel to give you an idea what it sounds like but it might buzz a bit?
Steve
I used pva ,2mm bulsa ply 6x4inch ,the frame was about 18x12inches,the panel was placed in the centre of the picture frame,the exciter was slightly offset on the ply ,not sure this was necessary,as the canvas would dampen the panel anyway ?and having everything centrally mounted would balance the canvas ?
I covered the whole panel canvas in thinned pva ,this helped stiffen the canvas and also tightened the surface through shrinkage .
I did also cover the front surface up to an inch from the fame in cascamite which made the surface very rigid ,but over time it cracked badly and ruined the panel.
I could do a recording of the panel to give you an idea what it sounds like but it might buzz a bit?
Steve
Quality Sound
Good day folks
Firstly, would like to thank this thread for giving me inspiration and guidance!
Ok, Just returned to the UK needing a new sound system had my eye on this for over a year now. But just couldn’t part with that cash. I stumbled on TI YouTube channel and this was the project for me..
Bought 2 Dayton Audio DAEX30HESF two bits of Birch spray varnished attached them and was blown away instantly, the way the music filled the room was and experience of its self. Not to mention family members saying “ It sounds like the piano is in the room”.
As I’m a lover of heavy reggae the DAEX30HESF struggled to cope in this environment, so I narrowed the problem down to excessive movement when introduced to bass.
18” Active Sub added
EQ added (with sub out)
Better but still too much wobble lower mids
XO added
Delivered a lot more versatility to my set up, but I wanted more depth at higher volumes.
So I found these 100 watt monsters
l.jpg (79.1 KB)
Attached them to a naked bit a ply and it was quite disappointing hollow tinny still no depth.
My 60 watt max amp couldn’t drive them
250 watt per channel amp added
With the XO and EQ onboard sound manipulation was easy. However, there was a hum coming from the naked boards? You pros call it resonance, so I didn’t varnish or paint wanted an easy fix so I went for self-adhesive vinyl.
Now I have a crystal-clear PA system (for a fraction of the cost) that fills the whole house with music regardless of room upstairs or down.
Handles any music you throw at it adding a depth of sound that most don’t even know was there.
The best bit is that my two main speakers look like ….. See for yourselves
speaks.jpg (86.7 KB)
Good day folks
Firstly, would like to thank this thread for giving me inspiration and guidance!
Ok, Just returned to the UK needing a new sound system had my eye on this for over a year now. But just couldn’t part with that cash. I stumbled on TI YouTube channel and this was the project for me..
Bought 2 Dayton Audio DAEX30HESF two bits of Birch spray varnished attached them and was blown away instantly, the way the music filled the room was and experience of its self. Not to mention family members saying “ It sounds like the piano is in the room”.
As I’m a lover of heavy reggae the DAEX30HESF struggled to cope in this environment, so I narrowed the problem down to excessive movement when introduced to bass.
18” Active Sub added
EQ added (with sub out)
Better but still too much wobble lower mids
XO added
Delivered a lot more versatility to my set up, but I wanted more depth at higher volumes.
So I found these 100 watt monsters
Attached them to a naked bit a ply and it was quite disappointing hollow tinny still no depth.
My 60 watt max amp couldn’t drive them
250 watt per channel amp added
With the XO and EQ onboard sound manipulation was easy. However, there was a hum coming from the naked boards? You pros call it resonance, so I didn’t varnish or paint wanted an easy fix so I went for self-adhesive vinyl.
Now I have a crystal-clear PA system (for a fraction of the cost) that fills the whole house with music regardless of room upstairs or down.
Handles any music you throw at it adding a depth of sound that most don’t even know was there.
The best bit is that my two main speakers look like ….. See for yourselves
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Sucra2.
Wow !where did you find those exciters can you give more information on them.
They are a bit overkill for me as I only at the moment use small panels with 10watt exciters,but in the future, who knows.
Also how about some pictures to show how you have mounted them if that's OK.
Steve
Wow !where did you find those exciters can you give more information on them.
They are a bit overkill for me as I only at the moment use small panels with 10watt exciters,but in the future, who knows.
Also how about some pictures to show how you have mounted them if that's OK.
Steve
Sucra2, I'm happy you arrived at a setup you are satisfied with!
Am i correct in assuming this exciter is the one you used: 50-100W Powerful 4/8ohm Flat Panel Exciter Sound Exciter Speaker - Dongguan Dason Electric Co., Ltd. - ecplaza.net
?
Beautiful speakers! Would you care to share some more details on build and materials? Perhaps even a few more photos of the build?
Cheers
Am i correct in assuming this exciter is the one you used: 50-100W Powerful 4/8ohm Flat Panel Exciter Sound Exciter Speaker - Dongguan Dason Electric Co., Ltd. - ecplaza.net
?
Beautiful speakers! Would you care to share some more details on build and materials? Perhaps even a few more photos of the build?
Cheers
kaptajnThomsen
The build was very simple as I have no power tools or electronic meters.
This thread gave me the idea then I left the rest to intuition and creativity
I had a vision of what I wanted to achieve and set about doing it.
My method was the bog standard method, including nails and fishing wire. However, the vinyl thing happened because I didn't want to paint or spray....
I am very much an eclectic when it comes to music so I would recommend EQ XO to have complete control of the sound to tailor it to how you like it..
P.s
Sitting in that chair gives you a feeling of wearing headphone
I have another pair of the big exciters if anyone needs a set pm me
Cheers
S2
The build was very simple as I have no power tools or electronic meters.
This thread gave me the idea then I left the rest to intuition and creativity
I had a vision of what I wanted to achieve and set about doing it.
My method was the bog standard method, including nails and fishing wire. However, the vinyl thing happened because I didn't want to paint or spray....
I am very much an eclectic when it comes to music so I would recommend EQ XO to have complete control of the sound to tailor it to how you like it..
P.s
Sitting in that chair gives you a feeling of wearing headphone
I have another pair of the big exciters if anyone needs a set pm me
Cheers
S2