Oh, thanks. I thought it was B or F that is "misaligned" or different from the rest
Then if it is so, ooppps... actually B also have wrong timing (7026 samples)??
What I need is correct timing for B, D and F so I can examine the minute difference between the three drivers using Foobar ABX. I think Foobar doesn't have the tool to change the timing of the samples?
Sorry, if you want it time aligned to the sample rate level - 1 sample within 48kHz, I can't do it. You will have to do it yourself like Barleywater did. All I do is visually look at the sound trace in Audacity and select a window in time that includes the sound clip via rough mouse click and drag. Besides, as Barleywater said, there is time jitter between the CD player clock and the sound file sample rate so you can't get perfect time alignment anyway. CD player is 44.1kHz and recordings are at 48kHz. To get time aligned data would require the CD player line out to the H4 line in and use H4 as the ADC. Too much work for me to do so that you can do digital ABX. If the clip was cut too short - meaning sound was literally cut off, I can fix that by redoing a sound clip that has enough blank space lead-in.
Great. Thanks!
I figured it was possible - just probably requires going in and zooming to single sample point and messing with sliding it around. Just don't have time to redo. But as you handled it - fantastic.
Here is ABX between D and F. 20/20, zero probability for guessing, they do sound different, and now I'm so confused. I think Barley's wav files are so high in quality compared to the MP3. I'm using less than $8 headphone (but good).
Attachments
ooops, I think you are right X. It cannot be better. Actually this cheap headphone cannot compare with my Sennheiser at home.
Now that I can do a proper ABX and hear the minute difference, I change my prediction from Peerless3--10F into 10F--SB65. So Jeshi twice picked SB65 in this round and in previous round
Oops no, she picked 10F. BYRTT picked SB65 like in previous round IIRC.
Nooooo.... it still doesn't make sense May be this mystery driver do sound like TG9. Very interesting... Yup, my old prediction was correct [Peerless--10F]. There's nothing strange why TG9 sounds very similar to Peerless driver than to 10F (But aren't their frequency responses very different???? Weks, I don't want to think about it anymore...)
Now that I can do a proper ABX and hear the minute difference, I change my prediction from Peerless3--10F into 10F--SB65. So Jeshi twice picked SB65 in this round and in previous round
Oops no, she picked 10F. BYRTT picked SB65 like in previous round IIRC.Nooooo.... it still doesn't make sense
May be this mystery driver do sound like TG9. Very interesting... Yup, my old prediction was correct [Peerless--10F]. There's nothing strange why TG9 sounds very similar to Peerless driver than to 10F (But aren't their frequency responses very different???? Weks, I don't want to think about it anymore...)
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A Friend Comparing TG9, 10F and B80
I let my friend at work to listen to TG9 and 10F and he could quickly find out that TG9 is more noisy and preferred the 10F. Unfortunately, when I presented 10F against B80 he couldn't hear any difference...
He is good with singing and playing musical instruments so I hoped he would have the "feel" to select the musical one. Unfortunately he couldn't hear any difference [and he's honest to say so].
Fiberglass is actually my preferred cone material. Actually what I need is a stiff and light cone because they can give details. And fiberglass is the one that is easy to control, compared to other hard cones.
Listening to 10F side by side with B80 really reminded me why I like fiberglass and at the same time why I hate fiberglass. Fiberglass sound is very high end and impressive but it can be weird and unnatural.
Cymbals is sharper with 10F and I prefer with B80 even tho it doesn't have sufficient "weight" with paper cone.
Drum, I think I slightly prefer 10F
Double bass is interesting, as here both drivers sound very different. I think it is here 10F has weird sound. I think because the signal is not complete with 10F. With B80, the string reverberation is there as this driver is better in producing such low level signal, tho sometimes too much. This makes B80 more musical.
Piano. With the cheap headphone I couldn't hear the room reverberation as with the Sennheiser at home. It is with the room reverberation [that I heard at home before] the B80 is more natural at producing piano sound. Without the reverberation, the "impact"/bite with 10F makes it a bit more natural I guess.
ADD:
It is weird, how my friend who couldn't hear the different between B80 and 10F could easily prefer 10F to TG9. Idem with the majority of the voters. So may be what I think a TG9 is not a TG9 at all but the mystery driver, and the mystery driver which I thought a Peerless is actually TG9. This seems make good sense I will check which one sound more like a fiberglass between the mystery driver and this strange low quality TG9...
I let my friend at work to listen to TG9 and 10F and he could quickly find out that TG9 is more noisy and preferred the 10F. Unfortunately, when I presented 10F against B80 he couldn't hear any difference...
He is good with singing and playing musical instruments so I hoped he would have the "feel" to select the musical one. Unfortunately he couldn't hear any difference [and he's honest to say so].
Fiberglass is actually my preferred cone material. Actually what I need is a stiff and light cone because they can give details. And fiberglass is the one that is easy to control, compared to other hard cones.
Listening to 10F side by side with B80 really reminded me why I like fiberglass and at the same time why I hate fiberglass. Fiberglass sound is very high end and impressive but it can be weird and unnatural.
Cymbals is sharper with 10F and I prefer with B80 even tho it doesn't have sufficient "weight" with paper cone.
Drum, I think I slightly prefer 10F
Double bass is interesting, as here both drivers sound very different. I think it is here 10F has weird sound. I think because the signal is not complete with 10F. With B80, the string reverberation is there as this driver is better in producing such low level signal, tho sometimes too much. This makes B80 more musical.
Piano. With the cheap headphone I couldn't hear the room reverberation as with the Sennheiser at home. It is with the room reverberation [that I heard at home before] the B80 is more natural at producing piano sound. Without the reverberation, the "impact"/bite with 10F makes it a bit more natural I guess.
ADD:
It is weird, how my friend who couldn't hear the different between B80 and 10F could easily prefer 10F to TG9. Idem with the majority of the voters. So may be what I think a TG9 is not a TG9 at all but the mystery driver, and the mystery driver which I thought a Peerless is actually TG9. This seems make good sense
I will check which one sound more like a fiberglass between the mystery driver and this strange low quality TG9...
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Jay,
Sounds as you have some fun there think xrk971 did a good job and probably also because we listen to previous winners here it got very hard to predict letters to sound clips even there is a real difference but much less as in previous rounds.
Get little confused because predictions you made at post 138 and postponed vote for preference sound, how have that to do with driver building tech plus specs and what others have guessed the letters paired a sound clip, you only need to make a vote for what of the five clips is your preferred sound not a third txt-file.
Sounds as you have some fun there
think xrk971 did a good job and probably also because we listen to previous winners here it got very hard to predict letters to sound clips even there is a real difference but much less as in previous rounds.Get little confused because predictions you made at post 138 and postponed vote for preference sound, how have that to do with driver building tech plus specs and what others have guessed the letters paired a sound clip, you only need to make a vote for what of the five clips is your preferred sound not a third txt-file
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>>> I'm a fan of Dynaudio tweeters.
The last dome tweeter I purchased and used in a DIY project was the Dynaudio D260. This was a highly regarded dome tweeter. Before that I onwned and used a handful of Vifa, Peerless and Phillips 1" domes. Perhaps it was my (poor) implementation but these tweeters drove me to full and wide range drivers.
I remember, years ago, critically listening to the Fostex 168z and thinking "Wow, the treble on this thing is better than the D260." What I was more likely enjoying was the overall presentation a pretty good full range driver can do.
I'm certain frequency charts would suggest I'm crazy. But I do prefer a good top end of a full ranger to a dome as it fits into my overall enjoyment of music reproduction.
The last dome tweeter I purchased and used in a DIY project was the Dynaudio D260. This was a highly regarded dome tweeter. Before that I onwned and used a handful of Vifa, Peerless and Phillips 1" domes. Perhaps it was my (poor) implementation but these tweeters drove me to full and wide range drivers.
I remember, years ago, critically listening to the Fostex 168z and thinking "Wow, the treble on this thing is better than the D260." What I was more likely enjoying was the overall presentation a pretty good full range driver can do.
I'm certain frequency charts would suggest I'm crazy. But I do prefer a good top end of a full ranger to a dome as it fits into my overall enjoyment of music reproduction.
Dispersion has a heck of a lot to do with high frequency presentation within a room and dome tweeters spit sound out all over the place. It's possible that this has a decent amount to do with it as full range drivers are kind of the antithesis of dome tweets when it comes to the way the highs are produced.
I have the D260 and compared it with a very cheap Vifa polyamid dome. Side by side on a naked ob implementation there was no difference that I could hear. Both had active 4'th order crossed around 2.5kHz which made it possible to switch instantly between them. Although I don't play so loud.
The best treble I heard was from Beyma's CP21. Not possible maybe for a two way but really shine in a three way.
Peter
Interesting, from the specs it seems H2 is only 25dB down. But it is measured at 1W (100dB)
http://www.beyma.com/getpdf.php?pid=CP-21/F
Ah it seems the E has a better appreciation now !
Terrible that the D had no vote ! On a track it was in second position, the B was better on the others tracks though !
I'm asking as the results are relativly close if we don't touch here to the personnal taste of each tester !
I sucess to split songs with Audaticy ! 45s with flac is 17.8 Mb ! Maybe we can try a further test by sharing with Dropbox...?!
Terrible that the D had no vote ! On a track it was in second position, the B was better on the others tracks though !
I'm asking as the results are relativly close if we don't touch here to the personnal taste of each tester !
I sucess to split songs with Audaticy ! 45s with flac is 17.8 Mb ! Maybe we can try a further test by sharing with Dropbox...?!
I wish we could get Zaph (John Krutke) to do a batch of objective tests on these drivers, now that we've narrowed the list down. Subjective testing should really only be done with a finished system when setting tone controls to compensate for listening room acoustics, Fletcher-Munson effects, recording technique variations and personal preference. Conversion to mp3 could make treble sound fizzy. The program material that we've been using is a wildcard. I'm afraid we are all going to read too much into the results of this test method.
The best tweeter I have ever heard (and have) is the full size Heil AMT made by ESS. It has a 12 lb motor structure, a flat impedance response, fairly flat frequency response, no ringing, and very low mass as it uses a thin pleated mylar diaphragm to squeeze the air so it can start and stop almost instantaneously (slew rate is fast). It can go down as low as 650Hz (almost FAST territory) so XO point is really almost anywhere you want.
The vocals are so clear and lifelike, it sounds like the singer has been shrunken and is sitting inside the tweeter singing away.