I said im typing using osk.exe. and im in a hurry to build my amp so i can do the listening. im doing it in excel, will be complete. im not gonna do it if you didnt ask. what date? 15 sep you said?
I wnt to downlod nd listen the clip3, only then I will mke up my mind nd vote. You know hw much effort to retype the missing "a"?
Jeshi,
I 'm with you on the difficulty of choice of the 3 drivers you prefer, it was also my top 3, not in this order though. 2 of them which was hard to benchmark because one seemed to be better on one clip while the other was a winner on an another clip... but near!But only one to seems having the good tones while not being fatiguing... and agree : not "fat" as you noticed ! AT least to my ears, system+room !
I really believe the climbing high subjective feeling is due to mp3... maybe !
@ Xr : is there a free soft whith I can cut 45 s on a wave or flac file ? I can send it directly to you in mp3 + flac : you will decide if it deserves a selection or not for a test. Your selection is subtle, especially the track 1 is a terrible tool, as track 3. As usual it's easier with acoustical instrument like track 2. Claps of the hand in an event was a test than La Revue du Son always keeped because large FR, like piano is ! Andine Flute is helpfull as well for a full range ! Harmonica is the judge of peace often for me
! You can notice than Piano like claps of the hands are impacts (claps hands for micro dynamic is terrible for drivers) and flute & harmonica are more a "continuous" moduled sound (by the breath of the player).
Listening those files of 4" drivers through my own 4" driver (125 hz to 2600hz on my speaker) was funny !
@Jay we share the same 2 first drivers but not in the same rank.
I 'm with you on the difficulty of choice of the 3 drivers you prefer, it was also my top 3, not in this order though. 2 of them which was hard to benchmark because one seemed to be better on one clip while the other was a winner on an another clip... but near!But only one to seems having the good tones while not being fatiguing... and agree : not "fat" as you noticed ! AT least to my ears, system+room !
I really believe the climbing high subjective feeling is due to mp3... maybe !
@ Xr : is there a free soft whith I can cut 45 s on a wave or flac file ? I can send it directly to you in mp3 + flac : you will decide if it deserves a selection or not for a test. Your selection is subtle, especially the track 1 is a terrible tool, as track 3. As usual it's easier with acoustical instrument like track 2. Claps of the hand in an event was a test than La Revue du Son always keeped because large FR, like piano is ! Andine Flute is helpfull as well for a full range ! Harmonica is the judge of peace often for me
! You can notice than Piano like claps of the hands are impacts (claps hands for micro dynamic is terrible for drivers) and flute & harmonica are more a "continuous" moduled sound (by the breath of the player).Listening those files of 4" drivers through my own 4" driver (125 hz to 2600hz on my speaker) was funny !
@Jay we share the same 2 first drivers but not in the same rank.
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Eldam,
I agree with you about the top3, that is also why I kind of labeled my top three as 1.1 1.2 1.3 since I feel I was really splitting hairs to make some decisions based on these recordings. I also think that a well recorded acoustic track can really help highlight driver issues (claps, cymbals, well recorded piano). This is why I was recommending some Holly Cole tracks previously, and the 2013 Anoushka Shankar/nora jones album Traces Of You is also extremely well recorded.
Audacity is a nice and free audio recording and editing program.
Audacity: Free Audio Editor and Recorder
I agree with you about the top3, that is also why I kind of labeled my top three as 1.1 1.2 1.3 since I feel I was really splitting hairs to make some decisions based on these recordings. I also think that a well recorded acoustic track can really help highlight driver issues (claps, cymbals, well recorded piano). This is why I was recommending some Holly Cole tracks previously, and the 2013 Anoushka Shankar/nora jones album Traces Of You is also extremely well recorded.
Audacity is a nice and free audio recording and editing program.
Audacity: Free Audio Editor and Recorder
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Thanks, the same Xr has, should be a nice soft...
I will try it.
Often well recorded albums with Norah Jones.
(OFF Topic, sorry for that : I'm often asking myself if those 4" should work better XOed above 700-800 hz though mine is playing from 125 hz to 2600 hz but has long Xmax possibilities. Just because often we need a little more air to be moved below Something like 800 hz ! E.G in the FAST speaker, the Dayton should do the job also with a higher XO like a Visaton AL200 8" alum cone which rocks in the low end... though at 350 LR2 XO the above range is using some FR of the driver below it ! with + 1 octave we are after all at 700 hz...and LR2 is soft enough.)
Is there a consent about not choosing XO above 500 hz for those size (I think about what Bob Cordel writed above?!)
I will try it.
Often well recorded albums with Norah Jones.
(OFF Topic, sorry for that : I'm often asking myself if those 4" should work better XOed above 700-800 hz though mine is playing from 125 hz to 2600 hz but has long Xmax possibilities. Just because often we need a little more air to be moved below Something like 800 hz ! E.G in the FAST speaker, the Dayton should do the job also with a higher XO like a Visaton AL200 8" alum cone which rocks in the low end... though at 350 LR2 XO the above range is using some FR of the driver below it ! with + 1 octave we are after all at 700 hz...and LR2 is soft enough.)
Is there a consent about not choosing XO above 500 hz for those size (I think about what Bob Cordel writed above?!)
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Eldam,
My choice of 350Hz was to retain as much of the "full range" character of the driver under test, while keeping excessive cone motion under control, and also to keep the critical 600Hz to 6kHz band where phase and spatial coherence effects that make a full range driver special alone. Typical FAST setups use 200Hz to 400Hz so I picked something in between. But honestly, I think a XO at 500Hz works quite well too and keeps the distortion of the full range driver even lower. One thing with the aluminum cone RS225 is that there is a peak at 3kHz that creeps up the higher up the XO frequency is - although I apply a single PEQ to the woofer to squash that peak already. I am using a Harsch XO, described elsewhere - not a LR2. The XO is assymmetric: 4th order on low pass and 2nd order on high pass and all in phase with a delay to the high equal to half a wave cycle at XO frequency. This gives a quasi transient perfect temporal response despite IIR filters and steep (non first order) filters being used.
More on Harsch XO:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/277691-s-harsch-xo.html
My choice of 350Hz was to retain as much of the "full range" character of the driver under test, while keeping excessive cone motion under control, and also to keep the critical 600Hz to 6kHz band where phase and spatial coherence effects that make a full range driver special alone. Typical FAST setups use 200Hz to 400Hz so I picked something in between. But honestly, I think a XO at 500Hz works quite well too and keeps the distortion of the full range driver even lower. One thing with the aluminum cone RS225 is that there is a peak at 3kHz that creeps up the higher up the XO frequency is - although I apply a single PEQ to the woofer to squash that peak already. I am using a Harsch XO, described elsewhere - not a LR2. The XO is assymmetric: 4th order on low pass and 2nd order on high pass and all in phase with a delay to the high equal to half a wave cycle at XO frequency. This gives a quasi transient perfect temporal response despite IIR filters and steep (non first order) filters being used.
More on Harsch XO:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/277691-s-harsch-xo.html
Don't even get me started... I hear you, I just shipped a pair of A7P's used in the test back to the Netherlands, and because they were over 4lbs, the least expensive way to ship was US Post Office for $53!!! (under 4 lbs was $32) They only cost 22 Euro to go the other way. UPS and FedEx wanted upwards of $90! How can anyone make a business that requires shipment from US to Eurozone?
You need a friend who flies between US and Europe and can hand carry these things.
How does Aliexpress ship me things from China for free? Or how do they only charge $70 to ship a 25lb chunk of aluminum class AB amp case?
Shipping prices always confound me. Digikey and Mouser (US companies) will give you free shipping on any order over £50. I could order solid copper wire or a 10kg transformer and get free shipping. Not only that but the shipment would arrive in 2-3 working days. Why I have to pay $40-110 (yes that's the range I managed to find) to ship some lightweight and tiny loudspeakers across the pond I don't know.
It seems that votes are being cast at a much faster rate in this round. It helps to have fewer drivers and 3 sound clips. We have 18 votes out of 30 people who have downloaded all 3 clips. More than 50% voting turnout rate so far and many days left to go. Thanks to all of those who worked on this and cast their votes early.
I looked again at your TXT and I think we have the same driver preference.
In my TXT you can see two columns which are "first impression ranking" and "final ranking". What you thought we have different ranking is for "first impression ranking". In "final ranking" I only put one driver, which is the same like yours. The reason was because I didn't think I would change my mind because it was so low distortion and musical [two most important criteria for enjoyment].
It is strange, I keep hearing more distortion from the driver of your second rank which is second also to me but later could be the third or may be not because the third driver [yours and mine] has a problem of its own. And both are high end drivers surprisingly. I really wanted to hear them through my speakers [which is very very low distortion compared to my laptop plus headphone]. Amp finished last night but one channel had no sound.
The process I did all of my listenings are:
[one] I download the reference to see what songs are in it and to choose which one I want to listen for comparing the drivers. None of the references here I'm familiar with. I thought the jazz [clip two] would be too easy, clip three I didn't recognize, so I chosed clip one which is a challenge for the drivers. But later I tried also the jazz, which to my surprise can be used to easily separate the drivers due to the piano.
[two] I do a quick listening [not even finished for each song usually] using headphone and laptop in one cycle to get the first impression. In this first impression of this round four I didn't hear any fatiguing sound. This first impression can change but I don't know, I always think that first impression has certain "value".
[three] I do more listening with headphone to make sure I hear what I hear. Distortion will creep up the more I listen to a file.
[four] I transported the files to handphone
and listen through my transparent speakers
I chose driver number "X" because its distortions were the best compliment to the distortions in: 1.) the original recording process , 2.) the recording process using the H4 (should have used a mono calibrated measurement mic), 3.) the distortion in my headphones, and 4.) any distortion created by the conversion to mp3. It was the sound of the treble that stood out the most to my ears. Clip 1 sounded over processed. Clip 2 left me unsure. Clip 3 was the only one that convinced me that driver X sounded the most natural.
There has been a lot of bad mouthing of the Zoom H4's mic response as being either wrong, unknown, etc. It is a great sounding recorder, and not only does it sound great, it is fairly accurate in response. Here is the spectrum of pink noise recorded from the Zoom H4's native mics compared to a calibrated mic. This was pink noise generated using the B80.
5mm dia electret condensor mic capsules for many products are OEM'd from Panasonic WM-61A's which are a flat from 20Hz to 20kHz within 2dB from the factory.
http://industrial.panasonic.com/lecs/www-data/pdf/ABA5000/ABA5000CE22.pdf
Barleywater detailed a rather complicated process by which I can record sound clips through a "calibrated" mic on the Zoom using an electrical subsitution method. Frankly too complex and time consuming for me to do.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...blind-auditioning-drivers-14.html#post4395986
Note that calibrated mics are only calibrated when you use the cal file in the measurement program. When recording .wav files or sound - they are native response. So using my UMIK-1 or UMM-6 to record the sound does no good.
5mm dia electret condensor mic capsules for many products are OEM'd from Panasonic WM-61A's which are a flat from 20Hz to 20kHz within 2dB from the factory.
http://industrial.panasonic.com/lecs/www-data/pdf/ABA5000/ABA5000CE22.pdf
Barleywater detailed a rather complicated process by which I can record sound clips through a "calibrated" mic on the Zoom using an electrical subsitution method. Frankly too complex and time consuming for me to do.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...blind-auditioning-drivers-14.html#post4395986
Note that calibrated mics are only calibrated when you use the cal file in the measurement program. When recording .wav files or sound - they are native response. So using my UMIK-1 or UMM-6 to record the sound does no good.
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Here is my analysis in a text file. I don't think I will change my mind regarding to my preference, but I really want to listen through my speakers before casting my vote [currently preparing the amplifier, LM1875].
Read my analysis in the attached text file. I didn't even consider anything about treble. Earl Geddes was right. The treble was not so important. Not even touches the bigger picture of what makes a great speaker
