Eldam,
There is harmonica on classic Bob Dylan and newer modern recordings by Blues Traveler has some harmonica sections. Piano is indeed hard to duplicate and I have some Chopin that makes most speakers crumble on a certain complex crescendo.
Send links on YouTube of songs you like and I will check it out. If you can provide me link via PM to a high res 45 sec recording that would be useful.
There is harmonica on classic Bob Dylan and newer modern recordings by Blues Traveler has some harmonica sections. Piano is indeed hard to duplicate and I have some Chopin that makes most speakers crumble on a certain complex crescendo.
Send links on YouTube of songs you like and I will check it out. If you can provide me link via PM to a high res 45 sec recording that would be useful.
I did not watch video for 6.5 in driver - how good does it look and what are they charging?
It's not the choice but the analysis of the sound. The choice is probably the same but it could change. The favorite may not change, but the rest could be, cause as you have noted, two drivers have "strange" behavior. I haven't heard clip3. And I heard very different sound in certain guitar sound but I don't know which one is the correct one so I need to compare with the reference later.
Oh, and I haven't herd through my speakers yet. Still finishing the amplifier (old single ended current feedback with capacitor at output). I wish the cap will protect the speaker but worry if it wont be transparent enough for this test.
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I don't know what you mean with "fallacy" but I think it is not.
First, it is like "talent", sensitivity that is usually not only related with sound. Second, yes, it is experience, as many would agree that with age and experience the ears quality declines but it's capability increases due to experience/training.
For me, listening to H2 is very easy. Thank's to Pavel Macura, he had conducted blind test where he added pure H2 to the sound file. Very useful experience for me. Also, during speaker design I found that finding the proper useful bandwidth in relation to non-linear distortion of the driver is critical.
I hope more people attach the entire score of preference <snip>
Come on Jay, show your list
Hehe. What does a preference mean to you. It is a preference of that individual, worse it could be a biased preference (extreme is a preference between 2 exact same things).
What "important" is the analysis of the sound like what Eldam has. It would show whether you can hear or not.
Honestly all these driver are good, but also all had problems compared to the reference tracks. So for me this came down to a lesser of evils choosing. All the tracks/drivers show a rising treble resulting in an overly splashy treble, and all also seem midrange forward compared to the reference track. Maybe this is an effect of the frequency response of the recording microphone, but it might also be a universal trait of these drivers or the crossover (no way to know without a frequency response curve for the recording mic).
I listened on a mono version of the recording using only the left channel from XRK's recording. I used all tracks and the reference recordings, but mostly focused on clip2 and clip3. I mainly used my Stax SR303 headphones for listening.
For my finally listening of my top3, I used my DAW so I could play all the tracks in sync and easily switch at any moment between tracks or loop on a region of the tracks to focus my attention on something I hear. This also allowed me to do some more precise level matching and also allowed me to eq the tracks to remove the treble splash and remove the RS225 woofer contribution to isolate the sound of the fullrange driver. I applied the eqing equally to all tracks. I also listened on the non processed mono tracks to confirm my impressions and choices. First listening of course was on the original stereo recordings.
So in a lesser of evil process .... I have made my choice
I listened on a mono version of the recording using only the left channel from XRK's recording. I used all tracks and the reference recordings, but mostly focused on clip2 and clip3. I mainly used my Stax SR303 headphones for listening.
For my finally listening of my top3, I used my DAW so I could play all the tracks in sync and easily switch at any moment between tracks or loop on a region of the tracks to focus my attention on something I hear. This also allowed me to do some more precise level matching and also allowed me to eq the tracks to remove the treble splash and remove the RS225 woofer contribution to isolate the sound of the fullrange driver. I applied the eqing equally to all tracks. I also listened on the non processed mono tracks to confirm my impressions and choices. First listening of course was on the original stereo recordings.
So in a lesser of evil process .... I have made my choice
So you think your top 2 are ScanSpeak drivers. Last round your favorite was TG9 so may be that's the reason now you think that TG9 is supposed to be better than 10F. Some kind of bias?
I think I was right that while TG9 sounds very close to 10F, the perceived quality is very difference. In quick listening especially, TG9 gives an "empty" impression, not interesting sound. Many said that this is a trait of accurate sound. But for me accuracy is not important if it doesn't give you enjoyment (but people will argue that it will depend on what is in the recording).
Can you check with software if the sound file for what you think is 10F is not lower in SPL level than other files? Who knows this can be the reason why it is not a favorite of the majority.
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I checked the SPL and this is why I brought them into my DAW and made fine adjustments. And yes it does appear that D has a slightly lower SPL which could explain why it is not getting any votes.
And just because I think my pick is not the 10f, this does not mean it is so. For all I know I actually picked the 10f and my "guess" of the drivers is wrong. In the end I suspect my top3 are the 10f/tc9/tg9.
And I actually own a pair of 10f/8424 and have not yet purchased the tc9 nor tg9. So in theory I should be biased toward the 10f. I am trying to honestly pick the drivers as best as possible with the sound clips and this test setup. I do not think the result of this voting has any bearing on which is the better driver. It can only give us a hint of which drivers we might like to buy. For example the last round I picked the SB65 and then I decided to order a pair, and they are pretty good. In round2 I picked the TG9 but decided to buy the 10f/8424.
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Oh, thanks. So SB65 over B80 and the Peerless. Knowing that Jeshi has good ears, it is possible that the mystery driver is the SB hehe
we can put our reasoning into an attached text file. This way people can choose to read now or wait until later.
That statement about 10F and TG9 is after they were being reveled (which was no different than before revealed anyway).
I will not yet reveal what I think which file is which driver. I will complete my analysis before 5 Sep. Attached is my first impression (sorry not in good format as I did it in image/xls which will be displayed directly on a post). Preference will change (currently I'm sure with it but see later after I vote). Distortion is important for me, but usually it is not heard in first quick cycle.
LOL to that one "It would show whether you can hear or not".
This is diy land most of us is amateurs, suggest give everybody a chance to step in without them feeling distanced to not be welcome to pick their preference sound here just because they not good enough to point out how objective data as HD2nd verse HD3rd sound signature is in reality and being afraid to pick a driver that is not the best one on paper including what material cone is made from etc, think this is tougher round this time we are not listening to a unsmooth CHN70 verse smoother ones anymore, these sound clips don't sound as reference track but in between them for many probably they hard to tell big difference as was in previous rounds.
Jay think you talk too much or is too pro, be elegant as Eldam he announced saturday he would listen sunday and what equipment he had, sunday he listened voted and hang his ranking, that was it. This is not real blind test at all, from day one four of these had their names announced and only one is surprise so drivers objective data is no secret, how hard can it be get listened and vote for your preference one out of these five and hang on that final txt file.
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The way they detailed the design process was very nice. They know what they are doing with the driver design. The 6.5 inch has a decent amount of xmax, a very stiff, but damped cone and has been designed to work well in very small boxes. The inclusion of the shorting ring is excellent too as it's one of my criteria for a well designed driver.
No this driver will not do anything but work as a bass unit but for that use it looks pretty good. I don't think it has a pole vent, which is my only misgiving, but they cost less than $20, I don't know what shipping to the UK would be like, but this could be a very nice driver for the bottom of cheap three ways or compact FAST systems.
The 3.5" really intrigues me too! It's a shame the sub unit is $150.