Thanks Nikos for this information.
Could you please indicate which methodology have you used for this comparison? I assume you have based your assesment on measurements .
@Berlusconi
Τhe listening of many people of the different amplifiers in the same setup, in the same song and difeferent songs ..... This amplifier USSA 5 brings out a much larger spectrum of frequencies ... you can hear the timbres of instruments much more detailed in a large spectrum .Very very musical amplifier.This is my conclusion, it is not necessarily accepted by everyone.
Please, if you want, do a little research on those who have this amplifier.....
All the amplifiers Nikos refers to (not sure about Mimesis 9.2) have posted measurements in their threads you can look up. But listening preference is not based just on numbers as you probably already know.
Why would you assume this, B?
Which is absoloootely the right way of comparing the sound of different amplifiers.
After all - we're in this hobby to improve our listening experience!
About measurments Mimesis 9.2 clone sorry this is off topic.....
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...plifier-i-have-ever-heard.174468/post-2592024
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...plifier-i-have-ever-heard.174468/post-2666813
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...plifier-i-have-ever-heard.174468/post-2592024
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...plifier-i-have-ever-heard.174468/post-2666813
Thanks Nikos. This answer sounds good to my ears.
Aall others:
I regret if I have inadvertently initiated yet another listening-vs-measurements debate. This wasn't my intention, just my clumsy wording. I appreciate both approaches. Its just a mater of prefferences.
Well my Toroidy transformers arrived last week. I'm looking at various chassis layouts now. I'll probably keep noodling on that for a few more days.
I want to leave room in the plan to possibly add speaker protection and/or soft start circuits later.
This 5U chassis is giant, once it is full I may need to hire someone to move it for me.
Nikos - I like how you mounted the two amp boards to each other, creative idea.
I normally build tube gear, so this is quite the learning experience. Thanks!
I want to leave room in the plan to possibly add speaker protection and/or soft start circuits later.
This 5U chassis is giant, once it is full I may need to hire someone to move it for me.
Nikos - I like how you mounted the two amp boards to each other, creative idea.
I normally build tube gear, so this is quite the learning experience. Thanks!
B,
I think measurements and subjectives all have their place.
The idea of 'musical' assessment is best done with the ears, after all.... and I'm pretty sure that not all the measurements we make do not really describe what we hear because the very issue of subjectivity is driven by preferences and perception, which changes with our mood.
The basics, FR, THD and IMD are probably the most important. I like to have a good look at the FFT of the distortion; some distortion profiles do not sound very good to me while others (dominant h2 for example) sound pretty natural.
I have also noticed that a well recorded 24 bit track sounds more natural than a well recorded 16 bit track, yet the technical/measured differences are very, very difficult to identify. I like the use of the word 'natural' for a good system; it tells you very little yet quite a lot.
Hugh
I think measurements and subjectives all have their place.
The idea of 'musical' assessment is best done with the ears, after all.... and I'm pretty sure that not all the measurements we make do not really describe what we hear because the very issue of subjectivity is driven by preferences and perception, which changes with our mood.
The basics, FR, THD and IMD are probably the most important. I like to have a good look at the FFT of the distortion; some distortion profiles do not sound very good to me while others (dominant h2 for example) sound pretty natural.
I have also noticed that a well recorded 24 bit track sounds more natural than a well recorded 16 bit track, yet the technical/measured differences are very, very difficult to identify. I like the use of the word 'natural' for a good system; it tells you very little yet quite a lot.
Hugh
AKSA,
I must say I absolutely agree with you even though I'm not a sycophant. Everything you say makes sense.
Now, picture yourself in a dusty attic finding an old tape with recording of voices of people you're familiar with. Even though the recording is made on a crappy tape recorder from early 70s with lousy microphone; you'll recognize voices of each individual you know. Even more, your mind will create a context, invoke memories, associate these voices with events from the past. That's where the real miracle begins: reality is created in us from limited and often distorted stimulus from the outside world. The »reality« is in fact originating from the inside, our senses are just a stimulus. I was surprised when I have realized that I can feel the difference between my “good old” expensive CD player and a new DAC. I was much more surprised when I have built my own DAC that sounds much better than highly priced commercial DAC. In this device I have used regulated power supply even for USB card section. Obviously, human mind has capability to »analyse« stimulus much deeper than electronic analysers do.
What we really do is faking of real sounds. Therefore, our main objective should be to make reproduction of sound as genuine as possible. Here is where measurements and understanding of physics are helpful indeed if not inevitable. In contrast to perception, sound reproduction is strictly technical matter. This boundary should be clear.
Even though human perception has indeed miraculous features it fails to provide clear information about essential technical aspects of design. Here is where measurements are indispensable. I have spent considerable amount of time to improve my skills in measuring, especially FFT analysis and it paid off (thanks again XRK971). Now I can easily allocate problems and solve them even before listening. FFT analysis is incredibly helpful for screening alternative wiring plans and to eliminate problems with grounding and power supplies.
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Absoloootely!
I like that definition, Hugh - but the problem is ... what measurements correlate to "sounding more natural"?
Just as an example of a subjective listening session which puzzles me as to what we could've measured ... to correlate with what we heard and liked;
* I acquired a prototype of an advanced, digital, AC motor speed controller for the TT I had just built, about 10 years ago.
* it was supplied with a 48v Meanwell SMPS.
* I decided to experiment with some different PSs for this motor speed controller (given that SMPSs are cr@p, right!
) - so half a dozen of us (including the designer of this motor speed controller) sat down for a listening session.* the universal ranking of the PSs - iow, how we liked the sound coming from the spkrs ... ie. how natural the music was, was as follows (from lowest to highest):
1. 48v Meanwell SMPS
2. 48v linear PS (your E-F PS, Hugh)
3. 2 parallel strings of 4x 12v SLAs, stacked together
4. the linear PS - with an 'Isotran' between it and the wall socket (an Isotran consists of a small isolating transformer plus a hash filter)
5. the Meanwell, with an 'Isotran' between it and the wall socket.
I found this session interesting ... for several reasons:
* firstly ... we were comparing PSs for a motor speed controller - not a signal processing device.
* secondly ... the ranking was unanimous.
* thirdly ... the SMPS came out on top!
* fourthly ... what was it that we could we have measured, to validate what we all clearly heard?
Hi my friends
Some parts arrived for my Psu with classic diodes instead LT3420.
The diodes STPS20M60D.
Vf 0.37V little warm without heatsinks about 40 C
All caps now are new.....
The ripple its zero.....at my scope at 2.3A bias with 0.15 Ω source resistor
Trafo 18.14 VAC input
Output +/- 20.68V bias 2.3A.
Ambient temp 27 C as you see the temp at active fan are 43-44C .Νο noise .
Also the temp for the output transistorsb on body of PSU are 36-37C.
Some parts arrived for my Psu with classic diodes instead LT3420.
The diodes STPS20M60D.
Vf 0.37V little warm without heatsinks about 40 C
All caps now are new.....
The ripple its zero.....at my scope at 2.3A bias with 0.15 Ω source resistor
Trafo 18.14 VAC input
Output +/- 20.68V bias 2.3A.
Ambient temp 27 C as you see the temp at active fan are 43-44C .Νο noise .
Also the temp for the output transistorsb on body of PSU are 36-37C.
Attachments
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Nikos, that is extremely interesting, not least because of the lengths the design team went to with the Wolverine to make it as neutral as possible. I look forward to your comparison with the AN39.
And yet neutrality vs musicality are really 2 different things. Not to mention synergy with the rest of the system.
No replacement for the “Audition.” No single best. Must build all. Must listen to all.
Best,
Anand.