Beyond the Ariel

I've never contacted Martin by phone or Skype, it's all been by e-mail. I contact him through his website, which has an email address on it somewhere. He's still making Azurahorns the last I knew, it's just that models bigger than the AH425 and AH550 are not economical to ship out of Australia. Perth is a long way from the rest of the world.

The fallback are the Polish-made Autotech fiberglass horns, and there are several models a bit bigger than the AH425. Wood-turned LeCleac'h horns are frighteningly expensive, the last I checked, and you have to be careful the throat region is a precision match to the exit of the compression driver.

Just auditioned the Spatial M1 Hologram at a friend's house; at US$4000/pair, they are very good indeed. Not sure which 15" pro coaxial driver Spatial is using, possibly a Radian. Also can't quite figure out how a pair of 15" drivers in a simple OB makes bass down to 50 Hz while retaining efficiency in the 95 dB/meter/watt range ... and I heard the 50 Hz for myself, it's not just PR brag. Probably the most dynamic-sounding OB I've heard to date ... 20 watts/channel of PP pentode power from the JWN "Colorado Special" amplifier rocks the house.

Kind of a surprise, because I associate OB's with a rack full of high-watt Class AB or Class D transistor amplifiers, multi-amping, and lots of DSP or analog op-amp EQ. Didn't expect that a dinky little tube amp with an early 1940's circuit (pre-Williamson with a floating paraphase inverter and straight pentode operation) ... and no system EQ at all ... would sound as dynamic as it did. Learn something every day.
I tested the OBL-11 Troels Gravesen project before I opt for TQWT mkII (which has some similarities to Ariel: scandinavian low colouration drivers; waveguide vs more common sealed or vented), also Troels project. Even in my small room, which was responsible for the defeat of OBL-11 (too much midrange reflections), the unit 15 "shook things in my room less than 5W, with a very usable response to 40Hz. WOW...!!
I used an 18Sound 15" speaker but I don't remeber the model; is one more compatible with original proposed by Troels.
 
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Surface corrosion and interaction between different metals is unavoidable. One will be an offermetal for the other. As in putting an "offerblock" of metal different to iron on the bottom of a steelhulled ship. Bad plating of contacts doesn't help either.
There's an excellent reason I clean my contacts with some frequency, and I connect / disconnect from time to time, to restore the perfect contact.
 
Was the output impedance of the PP pentode amp higher than "normal"?
If this amp is operating in open loop, will operate like an current source. I believe it has some feedback, because Williamson-style amp users generally use some feedback (but not always). I don't believe in the need to have DF>10 for damping 99% of speakers, and some will benefit to have LOW DF (if cross/enclosure is taken into account).
 
re: Lynn's positive comments about M1 hologram OB: M3 is suposedly an identical but a cost-efficient (industrialized?) version at half the price, which now borders on disturbing when compared to some ongoing DIY efforts (incl. mine :eek:). however I would love to see some measurements both on- and off -axis. crossing to a CD as low as 800Hz beats even Geddes at stretching a CD low in a home application (basically claiming that published specs only apply to higher volumes in PA applications). I still wonder about how well the 100-800Hz range is served in M1/M3?

hopefully we get some here on the forum to look more into coaxials on an OB.
 
You would't want to use a different 15" in that design, unless you know what you are doing
If efficiency, passband frequency reponse, coil impedance, linear Xmax and some other parameters are very close, is possible to use them, thanks to OB use. Most units differs more and will need an cross redesign, so I fully agree:).
Before that, in 2012, I adventured with an 10" Audio Nirvana in OB, but I used an enormous beast/monster (with NEGATIVE WAF:p), far far bigger than OBL-11:eek:. With that huge OB, the response becomes acceptable in my room. Lucky for me, because I did not know anything when I built such OB ...
As I said, my small room is messing with dipole action from "little" OBL-11
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. The TQWT is far more neutral in my room.
 
I've had several problems connections in laboratory measurements. Using cheap connectors, oxidation happens quickly, creating problems where apparently do not exist. I've had this problem too in my listening room. I say more: with the proliferation of dissimilar materials for contacts (copper, rhodium, gold, etc...), the problem reappears, because the surface corrosion is known to occur more often when the metals in contact are different. Now I use only matched metals (=brand) in interconnects.

I also try to integrate things to eliminate cables. I don't tolerate pres, for example. I make my amps always with integrated volume control and sufficient gain..
I went down a similar road - but then took it to the logical conclusion. Eliminate every connection which is a weakness, and the result, subjectively, can be dramatic.

An analogy is a space capsule, with crew members inside - and you have to stop air leaks. If you're feeling good about getting all the obvious leaks fixed, but perhaps not all that exist, there is an unfortunate consequence - the crew members die. You know that you're getting somewhere when the door is opened at the end of a journey, and you don't have corpses inside.
 
Just auditioned the Spatial M1 Hologram at a friend's house; at US$4000/pair, they are very good indeed. Not sure which 15" pro coaxial driver Spatial is using, possibly a Radian. Also can't quite figure out how a pair of 15" drivers in a simple OB makes bass down to 50 Hz while retaining efficiency in the 95 dB/meter/watt range ... and I heard the 50 Hz for myself, it's not just PR brag. Probably the most dynamic-sounding OB I've heard to date ... 20 watts/channel of PP pentode power from the JWN "Colorado Special" amplifier rocks the house.

They seem to use Eminence Beta bass/coax + P.Audio HF driver...
 
[An analogy is a space capsule, with crew members inside - and you have to stop air leaks. If you're feeling good about getting all the obvious leaks fixed, but perhaps not all that exist, there is an unfortunate consequence - the crew members die. You know that you're getting somewhere when the door is opened at the end of a journey, and you don't have corpses inside/QUOTE].... sounds like a Dr Who episode..
 
Just auditioned the Spatial M1 Hologram at a friend's house; at US$4000/pair, they are very good indeed. Not sure which 15" pro coaxial driver Spatial is using, possibly a Radian. Also can't quite figure out how a pair of 15" drivers in a simple OB makes bass down to 50 Hz while retaining efficiency in the 95 dB/meter/watt range ... and I heard the 50 Hz for myself, it's not just PR brag. Probably the most dynamic-sounding OB I've heard to date ... 20 watts/channel of PP pentode power from the JWN "Colorado Special" amplifier rocks the house.

Kind of a surprise, because I associate OB's with a rack full of high-watt Class AB or Class D transistor amplifiers, multi-amping, and lots of DSP or analog op-amp EQ. Didn't expect that a dinky little tube amp with an early 1940's circuit (pre-Williamson with a floating paraphase inverter and straight pentode operation) ... and no system EQ at all ... would sound as dynamic as it did. Learn something every day.

Been enjoying a 12" coax plus 2x18's per side in various alignments. Active with 90's touring amps of course. Haven't become bored with it yet. Does many things right.

Martin Audio has some new coaxials that I want to get my hands on. They seem to be advancing on Tannoy's(now Behringer :() accomplishments.
 
See and Hear Gary Dahl's System !

Anyone interested in seeing and HEARING Gary Dahl's Speakers (Actually, a major portion of his whole system) will have the chance at this Summer's DIY Meet put on by the "Sound DIY Club" and is being hosted by the Pacific NorthWest Audio Society at the end of August!

More details under the Events heading.

Best Regards,
TerryO
 
diyAudio Editor
Joined 2001
Paid Member
They mention Beryllium in the compression driver , and one of the drivers in a photo is a Radian- has their label on the back. So at least on their high end Lumina stuff it's pretty clear.



Just auditioned the Spatial M1 Hologram at a friend's house; at US$4000/pair, they are very good indeed. Not sure which 15" pro coaxial driver Spatial is using, possibly a Radian. Also can't quite figure out how a pair of 15" drivers in a simple OB makes bass down to 50 Hz while retaining efficiency in the 95 dB/meter/watt range ... and I heard the 50 Hz for myself, it's not just PR brag. Probably the most dynamic-sounding OB I've heard to date ... 20 watts/channel of PP pentode power from the JWN "Colorado Special" amplifier rocks the house.
 
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