Randy you are a bass player so: ever played a 2x15" cab and a 4x10" ( same box loading/low freq limit) in direct comparison?
Both have roughly the same sd but 4x10" seems more 'dynamic' than 2x15" ime.
But once lowpassed 2x15" have 'better', 'bigger' low end.
It's all about acoustic impedance for low end and directivity behavior in mid/high for the transient/breakup (dynamic).
If for sub then box loading can make a difference as already said by Art.
Both have roughly the same sd but 4x10" seems more 'dynamic' than 2x15" ime.
But once lowpassed 2x15" have 'better', 'bigger' low end.
It's all about acoustic impedance for low end and directivity behavior in mid/high for the transient/breakup (dynamic).
If for sub then box loading can make a difference as already said by Art.
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Hey man, how are you? I just meant how a 15" feels ina small room. My first real bedroom system as a teenager was a pair of 15" subs and PA 2-ways. Was the only 'hi-fi' that I could make from local Jaycar parts that could do a serious job with dub basslines and was my first Dj system. This thing felt so different in the way they pressurised the room, visceral! Later I replaced them with more hi-fi type Peerless 10s that had wicked looking roll surrounds but from behind looked like any cheap woofer, xlls or something like that. Cam highly recommended that would be quality bass but would just hit limits very quickly and not much power handling. None of the sense of the 15s. Even later had the same missing feeling, upgrading to a 12" Yamaha active........that the sense I mean. But that's the dynamics with physical reception of bass through the body and not as per Kiriviums query regarding the sense of quickness for live playing. That is a factor too but for my actual build and not the virtual reference for a decent 15" true subwoofer in a small box
Krivium, long time, how have you been? Let's see. What you mention is prolly the proper use of the word dynamics. Here is the thing, for the Dubwoofer, I do want fast! The Ampeg that Art brought up is a stage fav by many bassists and standard gear on Rototom stage, but it's not the sound of reggae bass. The favoured system of the person on the recordings of just about most reggae is actually a 4x10+15" setup from MarkBass. I have dialled in a similar range of tones as that system using a combination of some mixers, 4x7' subs but on a lot smaller output. Of course, like the Markbass system, mine can also be plugged into whatever PA+mic'ed
Yes, for fast thumb style heavy attack, quick mutes based standard reggae riddims I feel exactly that, need quick. The new Dubwoofer mixer plugin system is going to be 4x12s (unusual ones that might just sound faster than a 10). But for personal playing, I am not yet ready to give up on what I have been able to do with the 4x7" array. These face me and I even have my foot up on it. I only play to myself though and the rest is for restarting DJ'ing and our upstart students with my daughter on the electric bass or double bass with soon a synth pickup for some student school material redone as EDM/Dub
Sims of a single 15 with the 60L of the dual 12s behind it looks good enough to add as 15" virtual reference. Thats the lower blue trace with the same power as the single 10 in lower red trace. The top blue trace is the dual 15 with 120L and the same power as the dual 10 in the top red trace. So four virtual reference subs now and I think at some point I want to hear a TL with these 15s
Real work can now start on the Dubwoofers
No reason not to keep pushing as much subwoofing into increasingly smaller boxes....any more drivers?
Real work can now start on the Dubwoofers
No reason not to keep pushing as much subwoofing into increasingly smaller boxes....any more drivers?
Bandpass for life!
Pro Audio bass bin = 41.2hz (4 string bass lowest note).
Subwoofer music = 27.5hz (88 key piano lowest note).
Subwoofer home theater = 20hz.
Hey band pass man, what do you think? Can the dropping response on either side of the hump on the ZR12.D be lifted by bandpass port either side of the driver? I mean the driver would have to be enclosed with a ported volume either side
Any fold will increase turbulence, so the effectiveness (linear output for enclosed volume) of the flared port would be reduced.
That said, it would still be more effective than a non-flared folded port.
The blue trace in #37 reads lower than the others.
It looks like it's box may be undersized, and the tuning is lower than the red traces.
Too many variables (what is "full power", Fs, impedance, excursion,HP setting etc.) to say more from the screen shot.
Ok, thanks. That's good to know about folding. That just might get me the look
Full power is driver Wrms rating, or each module is 1kw when the driver w is higher. One module per voice coil, so four modules for the dual driver systems so lower red trace is 2kw and upper is 4kw. No Eq on any of the models and all running high pass 20Hz
The ZR12.4D opening trace in WinISD was so dismal and the response so hard to flatten that I didn't bother with going into too much detail. Let's see what ails it
Hey man, thanks for running those, but that's not the driver. The mulish one is the ZR12.4D. I wonder how to provoke it to kick. Anyway, those numbers look good, but there is plenty of alien stuff with HR. For one thing, whats going on with that format for Cms, how does one convert to that? And so on
The box was set =Vas or 22L and tuning is = Fs or 28Hz and manipulated in all directions, but she refuses to let the 'unchit' down. !kw module on each coil for power headroom for any DSP work. The Virtuals are running 30L and 60L with 25Hz tuning
Let's go into more detail
What do you guys think? Is it simply just made for very low bass out of 22L without sheer SPL considerations? As is, seems the others are better options for intended De Fine Dubwoofer
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...efficient-tops-dubwoofer.414311/#post-7718893
Right! The DS18 website only gives 4+4 ohm for Re. I had to go to another website to get the 32mm xmax.
https://ds18.com/cdn/shop/files/ZR12.2D_-_ZR12.4D_-_SUBWOOFERS_MANUAL_WEB.pdf?v=360461080284055225
The datasheet shows correct values for Re for both 12.2 and 12.4 model but missing the Xmax. Earthquake Sounds way of listing Xmax makes the one way rating used by DS18 look bad!
The manuals have recently been updated online. I have saved some older manuals containing Xmax for some of their other drivers that I am interested in and these have the Xmax info
Better yet, there is a manual in the driver box
The datasheet shows correct values for Re for both 12.2 and 12.4 model but missing the Xmax. Earthquake Sounds way of listing Xmax makes the one way rating used by DS18 look bad!
The manuals have recently been updated online. I have saved some older manuals containing Xmax for some of their other drivers that I am interested in and these have the Xmax info
Better yet, there is a manual in the driver box
That's what I noticed when running sims on the driver. Not completely a bad thing, though. My home system doesn't really pull lower than 40Hz and being ina tiny home, space is a premium. I'll do the ZR12.4D in the smallest cab that will still fit dual opposed PR. and replace my current z623 sub with this one. Even though it's not PA loud, it still manages to scrape THX and with it low reach, it should be perfect for HT and video editing tourism promos of the Bay and our three rental boats
Let's call this one the Tiny20s challenge for a later date
The search is on, please see the project thread and the last graphs with the green trace. This is so far creating the most noise in the allowed cab size. There will be four of these in the system, so however 4x of those green traces would sum
Any ideas on for a driver that would better the predicted SPL for the green trace there? The 30L driver volume is the max allowed and plus ports and such off course. Or in other words. Total external cab can be max 40L
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...efficient-tops-dubwoofer.414311/#post-7719394
Tee law is actually efficient, low, small...pick 2.
With enough power and displacement a small cabinet can go low and loud, but it won't be efficient.
I do have space for a TL under the slats of the thing from the heaving bed thread