I finally finished my build and got it working after forgetting to add 3 zeros to the end of resistors 3 and 4. I guess 100 ohms is not 100,000 ohms. This is not the first time I made this kind of mistake. You would think I would learn from my past mistakes and triple check resistor values.
Once that was sorted out the FE22 works very well. I'm enjoying it with my Miro PMC63 DAC and SissySIT. I will have to swap it out and see how I like it compared to my BA3 pre and F2J combo.
The build is using a 24vdc SMPS with MJ's SMSP filter and additional RCRC filtering like on the ACP+. The pot is an ePay 10K DACT. I picked the case up from Amazon.
Once that was sorted out the FE22 works very well. I'm enjoying it with my Miro PMC63 DAC and SissySIT. I will have to swap it out and see how I like it compared to my BA3 pre and F2J combo.
The build is using a 24vdc SMPS with MJ's SMSP filter and additional RCRC filtering like on the ACP+. The pot is an ePay 10K DACT. I picked the case up from Amazon.
***** Critical Feedback from a DIY Electronics Noob/Beginner *****
I have heard Nielson Pass is a fantastic guy who designs excellent stuff. I would love to build more DIY stuff.
In the intro, I read: "Simple, good (excellent), and cheap."
great!
..And that he expects it to "lure in would-be DIYers". - Yes, that sounds like me!
However, I think the rest of the PDF description is completely failing.
At least it assumes a TON of prior knowledge. The first section does not explain what this build is...? It talks about a: "Discrete Gain Stage, that can be used before a modest power amp or as a general audio gain circuit."
What does that mean??? My best guess is a preamp with some gain... ? And then the article refers to the Burning Amp festival and that readers almost saw it? Sorry, I was not there, and I feel I am already missing some context. The article then mentions "a gain of 10".
...Now, I am confused!!! It is not a preamp, then? And I think that is quite a lot of gain. I am used to zero-gain preamps.
The article now starts talking about the schematic, I am lost and there is a photo of a board. Then I think, "hey there is missing quite a lot of stuff for this to be a final preamp?"
I try and look for an explanation of what is missing, but there is none...
It also talks about the option to get 30-watt output or 120W bridged. I know what bridged is, but I am really confused.... This certainly is no preamp.... 🤨
I then try and Google "discrete gain stage" and understand it is about setting the gain optimal before a power amp, and I start wondering what optimal gain my power amp (Akitika Kit Z4) needs. There is also something about impedance matching, I am sure I read that! But that also depends on how the volume is operated, I think..... I read that potentiometers lower the damping factor.
However, I just wanted to build a pretty and good-sounding preamp....and this came up. Maybe this is just a component...and not what I am looking for. I am really missing a kit with decent instructions. This PDF would benefit from 2 lines describing what it is, and the experience needed, e.g. this kit assumes an "intermediate understanding of electronics".
I think the DIY community would attract MANY MORE DIY PEOPLE if there was just a little bit of labeling and explanation that did not assume a ton of preconceived knowledge. Because many people in Audio love "Simple, Cheap, Excellent" in some order...
Happy easter with the best intentions! 😉 Feel free to comment with some articles that give an intro to the subject or improve the understanding of projects like these...
OJ
I have heard Nielson Pass is a fantastic guy who designs excellent stuff. I would love to build more DIY stuff.
In the intro, I read: "Simple, good (excellent), and cheap."
great!..And that he expects it to "lure in would-be DIYers". - Yes, that sounds like me!
However, I think the rest of the PDF description is completely failing.
At least it assumes a TON of prior knowledge. The first section does not explain what this build is...? It talks about a: "Discrete Gain Stage, that can be used before a modest power amp or as a general audio gain circuit."
What does that mean??? My best guess is a preamp with some gain... ? And then the article refers to the Burning Amp festival and that readers almost saw it? Sorry, I was not there, and I feel I am already missing some context. The article then mentions "a gain of 10".
...Now, I am confused!!! It is not a preamp, then? And I think that is quite a lot of gain. I am used to zero-gain preamps.
The article now starts talking about the schematic, I am lost and there is a photo of a board. Then I think, "hey there is missing quite a lot of stuff for this to be a final preamp?"
I try and look for an explanation of what is missing, but there is none...
It also talks about the option to get 30-watt output or 120W bridged. I know what bridged is, but I am really confused.... This certainly is no preamp.... 🤨
I then try and Google "discrete gain stage" and understand it is about setting the gain optimal before a power amp, and I start wondering what optimal gain my power amp (Akitika Kit Z4) needs. There is also something about impedance matching, I am sure I read that! But that also depends on how the volume is operated, I think..... I read that potentiometers lower the damping factor.
However, I just wanted to build a pretty and good-sounding preamp....and this came up. Maybe this is just a component...and not what I am looking for. I am really missing a kit with decent instructions. This PDF would benefit from 2 lines describing what it is, and the experience needed, e.g. this kit assumes an "intermediate understanding of electronics".
I think the DIY community would attract MANY MORE DIY PEOPLE if there was just a little bit of labeling and explanation that did not assume a ton of preconceived knowledge. Because many people in Audio love "Simple, Cheap, Excellent" in some order...
Happy easter with the best intentions! 😉 Feel free to comment with some articles that give an intro to the subject or improve the understanding of projects like these...
OJ
Jungstar,
I get where you're coming from - like you, I've limited knowledge and experience in audio electronics, and stuff goes over my head all the time on this forum.
But I think you're being a little hard on Mr Pass. He and many others give a huge amount of time to supporting diy audio.
But the truth is this stuff is not childsplay. There's a lot to learn, just to get the point where you can safely build a simple (it's a relative term) circuit that someone else has designed and provided key parts for. If you don't understand something (and that happens to me on a daily basis), you just have to keep reading around until it starts to fall into place.
If you ask a specific question on here, people will be helpful. In fact it often amazes me how generous people are with their time and energy. But we all still have to work at educating ourselves - we can't expect to be spoonfed!
I get where you're coming from - like you, I've limited knowledge and experience in audio electronics, and stuff goes over my head all the time on this forum.
But I think you're being a little hard on Mr Pass. He and many others give a huge amount of time to supporting diy audio.
But the truth is this stuff is not childsplay. There's a lot to learn, just to get the point where you can safely build a simple (it's a relative term) circuit that someone else has designed and provided key parts for. If you don't understand something (and that happens to me on a daily basis), you just have to keep reading around until it starts to fall into place.
If you ask a specific question on here, people will be helpful. In fact it often amazes me how generous people are with their time and energy. But we all still have to work at educating ourselves - we can't expect to be spoonfed!
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As a starting point there are lots of useful contextual articles at
https://www.firstwatt.com/articles.html
and a series of lectures hosted by Linear Integrated Systems
https://www.youtube.com/@LinearSystemsUSA/videos
reading and watching these resources will help you formulate the questions you need to answer.
https://www.firstwatt.com/articles.html
and a series of lectures hosted by Linear Integrated Systems
https://www.youtube.com/@LinearSystemsUSA/videos
reading and watching these resources will help you formulate the questions you need to answer.
Jungstar,
This reminds me of a book I read about Jim Simons' launch of the quant revolution in financial trading markets.
Jim being a celebrated mathematician was asked by the author if he could explain the concept behind one of his math awards.
Mr. Simons said something like, "I could explain it, but not in a way you would understand."
Well, that's just how I feel sometimes here, like the author.
This reminds me of a book I read about Jim Simons' launch of the quant revolution in financial trading markets.
Jim being a celebrated mathematician was asked by the author if he could explain the concept behind one of his math awards.
Mr. Simons said something like, "I could explain it, but not in a way you would understand."
Well, that's just how I feel sometimes here, like the author.
Jungstar, wow, lots of questions there... but welcome aboard. Seems like the best place to start is... at the beginning. Can you solder? Do you know Ohm's law? If, not... get some cheap prototyping board and a pile of parts and practice...basic electronics.... lots of resources out there for that. The articles at Firstwatt just mentioned are practically required reading. Some random comments... Discrete=not an integrated circuit. Preamplifier= probably has input switching, volume control, probably a gain stage, maybe a phono gain stage. The project presented in this thread is a building block of something you might want to use it in. Input stage of a power amplifier, preamp gain stage just mentioned, etc. The gain of the FE '22 is easily changed with some resistor values. 20db as presented in article is reasonable and typical as an amplifier FE=Front End=IPS=Input Stage. FE '22 is actually IPS and VAS. VAS=Voltage Amplification Stage. A power amplifier is typically IPS+VAS+OS. OS=Output Stage. FE '22 could be made 0db gain (unity gain) if desired, for some other use, i.e. "buffer"=high input impedance and low output impedance=easy to hook things to it=easily drives other things. Does any of that help?
My sympathies. I depend a lot on the assistance of the knowledgeable and friendly members of this community to fill in many of the blanks. At the same time I am trying to emphasize simple and cheap so as to make these projects accessible.
Many of the kits are "essential's" but there are also "completion kits" or at least a bill of materials.
Still, these are not Heathkits.
I recommend Jim Tieman's excellent build guides, and anyone here will usually get some answers if they ask questions.
Many of the kits are "essential's" but there are also "completion kits" or at least a bill of materials.
Still, these are not Heathkits.
I recommend Jim Tieman's excellent build guides, and anyone here will usually get some answers if they ask questions.
and...
"These boards have a couple of additional features on the artwork - the original design is the base,
but a few more pads will give it some more flexibility." NP
edit - A moment of silence for my old outdated antique original kit... chucked in the trash due to obsolescence.. I'm sure he would have been a good ol' circuit... but he never even made it out of the bag....
"These boards have a couple of additional features on the artwork - the original design is the base,
but a few more pads will give it some more flexibility." NP
edit - A moment of silence for my old outdated antique original kit... chucked in the trash due to obsolescence.. I'm sure he would have been a good ol' circuit... but he never even made it out of the bag....
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Same circuit with new options: Offset trim pot, emitter resistor for the pnp bipolar, feedback resistor for external stage, more hole sizes for film caps and additional holes for lag compensation.
With a little trimming and 48v supply I'm seeing .001% at ordinary listening levels with the J113's and the potential for 30W amplifiers, higher if you want to run them balanced.
Same price in the store, delivery real soon.
With a little trimming and 48v supply I'm seeing .001% at ordinary listening levels with the J113's and the potential for 30W amplifiers, higher if you want to run them balanced.
Same price in the store, delivery real soon.
Looks good. What's tool #35 for? Can it drive an F4?
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@Jungstar : I can't recommend any better material than what's already been said. Just my anecdote: 2019, I started my first project beside the ACA (complete Kit), I had absolutely no clue what I was supposed to order from the BOM and its build guide, so, instead of some 4007 diodes, I received a bag full of "Type A / B / C rectangular valve connectors".
I managed to get a working, wonderfully sounding preamp in the end.
Nelson's projects aren't always straightforward (as he says, it's no heathkits), but it gets you hooked. I still struggle to understand his wizardry.
