I have used opaque projectors for some time being an artist and all. Their image is based on reflection. I don't want to be negative, but if you shoot light at a shiny LCD panel, you're image is going to be flooded with reflected light. I did try this at first with my overhead projector and a casio portable lcd tv. thoughts?
Hello everybody,
did anyone try the Sharp QA-1150 LCD Projction-panel? If yes, what kind of controller is compatiple with pal-Tv system ? It was offered here on ebay germany for 25$ !
Futher, here some of my tips for sucessfull projection:
From the world of optics:
1. Distinguish lightsources, they can be selfradiant or lightend by another lightsource. CRTs are lightsources, lcds, slides films are not. The projectionlens has to be in a distance >F(focus lenght) from the object to get a real picture.
2. If the objct is transmitted by light from lamp behind, the lightbeam ideally should come from a small lightpoint. That light can be amplified through a sphaeric- or polaroid mirror or condensor-lens or both. If you take cluster of leds with condensor the the outerborded leds may not reach the the projectionlens. then it would be better to place them directly behind the panel.theoretically every led needs its own little condensor.
3.the condensor-lens must be larger than lcd. The beam through condensor and lcd panel must (!) converge to the aperture of projection-lens. You can say the light source must be projected right into the main projection-lens. if not then you loose the outer parts of the picture.That means also the distance of the condensor lens from lightsource must be >F.
4. i think it's a good idea first try with tranparentfilm, black cartoon boarder(lcd size). With a marker draw symetric grids onto this film and by projecting you can easy fix geometric distortions.
5.Projection-lens: as a thumb rule you can say, the larger the aperture of a lens the better the brightness. But there is unfortunatly a relation between focuslenght, size of aperture and distortion of the picture, especially with large sized lcds. there will always be a compromise; good projectionobjectives are made with 3 and more lenses to correct abrevations(achromats).This is a mix of convex and concav lenses.
6.don' loose patience!
[Edited by Toni on 11-10-2001 at 08:11 PM]
did anyone try the Sharp QA-1150 LCD Projction-panel? If yes, what kind of controller is compatiple with pal-Tv system ? It was offered here on ebay germany for 25$ !
Futher, here some of my tips for sucessfull projection:
From the world of optics:
1. Distinguish lightsources, they can be selfradiant or lightend by another lightsource. CRTs are lightsources, lcds, slides films are not. The projectionlens has to be in a distance >F(focus lenght) from the object to get a real picture.
2. If the objct is transmitted by light from lamp behind, the lightbeam ideally should come from a small lightpoint. That light can be amplified through a sphaeric- or polaroid mirror or condensor-lens or both. If you take cluster of leds with condensor the the outerborded leds may not reach the the projectionlens. then it would be better to place them directly behind the panel.theoretically every led needs its own little condensor.
3.the condensor-lens must be larger than lcd. The beam through condensor and lcd panel must (!) converge to the aperture of projection-lens. You can say the light source must be projected right into the main projection-lens. if not then you loose the outer parts of the picture.That means also the distance of the condensor lens from lightsource must be >F.
4. i think it's a good idea first try with tranparentfilm, black cartoon boarder(lcd size). With a marker draw symetric grids onto this film and by projecting you can easy fix geometric distortions.
5.Projection-lens: as a thumb rule you can say, the larger the aperture of a lens the better the brightness. But there is unfortunatly a relation between focuslenght, size of aperture and distortion of the picture, especially with large sized lcds. there will always be a compromise; good projectionobjectives are made with 3 and more lenses to correct abrevations(achromats).This is a mix of convex and concav lenses.
6.don' loose patience!
[Edited by Toni on 11-10-2001 at 08:11 PM]
light sources
ok so my lcd display is on order, i have a lens (electronics goldmine - $3), and now its time for a light source. cheap halogen is what i am thinking now as they are cheap and dont require to me wire up 150 leds. and they seem like they should work. to keep from burning up the lcd i guess i'll need a cold mirror. Are there any inexpensive sources and just how big of one do i need? the lcd is 4" diagonal. The lens is about 75mm diameter.
thanks
jeff
ok so my lcd display is on order, i have a lens (electronics goldmine - $3), and now its time for a light source. cheap halogen is what i am thinking now as they are cheap and dont require to me wire up 150 leds. and they seem like they should work. to keep from burning up the lcd i guess i'll need a cold mirror. Are there any inexpensive sources and just how big of one do i need? the lcd is 4" diagonal. The lens is about 75mm diameter.
thanks
jeff
Diagrams
Here is a web page with some various information regarding LCD and DLP video projection systems I thought may be of use to you. The 3 colour LCD setup is the first one and it could be simplifyed by using colour filters as oposed to using dichroicn mirrors wich seperates the light into it various colours.
Here is a web page with some various information regarding LCD and DLP video projection systems I thought may be of use to you. The 3 colour LCD setup is the first one and it could be simplifyed by using colour filters as oposed to using dichroicn mirrors wich seperates the light into it various colours.
I want a large screen projector like you folks. LCD panels are next to unobtainable here in New Zealand. Our dollar is 40 percent of yours so to buy a panel from USA would be expensive and you dont know for sure the condition of a panel. I will start a new thread on my laser projector and descibe progress so far.
Richard
Richard
Fresnel Lens
For those of you having trouble locating fresnel lens I have this to say, you can't be looking very hard. I live in Perth Western Australia and I have found them at department stores, newsagents, and my optomitrists. Theye were all page magnifiers. I did some tests and found that 1 of these is no good for a projector, I think if you combine two it would work. I have one in my overhead projector and they are no were near as powerful!
For those of you having trouble locating fresnel lens I have this to say, you can't be looking very hard. I live in Perth Western Australia and I have found them at department stores, newsagents, and my optomitrists. Theye were all page magnifiers. I did some tests and found that 1 of these is no good for a projector, I think if you combine two it would work. I have one in my overhead projector and they are no were near as powerful!
Here's my progress:
Ideal lamp:
>10.000 lumens, cannot convert to ANSI lumens because it's depend on many factor inside the projector.
>5000 degrees Kelvin light temperature (daylight temperature is 5600 d.K)
White LED, >5000d.K light temp. but too small lumens / costwise.
http://www.e-insite.net/ednmag/contents/images/149134.pdf
Halogen lamp, very cheap ($5 complete set),I use this type of lamp for my first experiment (floodlight, 300W/220V (my country standard voltage),5000 lumens,3000d.K, 2000 hrs life), output is not bright enough and some kind of yellowish color, (like watching old movies with old projector in old cinema sometime in 1930es).
Metal-Halide lamp, moderate ($60 complete set), for my second experiment (floodlight, 150W/220V, 11500 lumens,4300d.K, 10000 hrs life), output is very bright and real white!
Both lamps very hot. Temperature in front of it (30 cm, with powerfull cooling fan) measured: 40d.Celcius.
Lenses:
I use basic formula to calculate:
1. 1/dIMAGE-1/dLCD=1/f
2. hIMAGE/hLCD=dIMAGE/dLCD
3. 1/ftotal=1/f1+1/f2
http://www.education.eth.net/acads/physics/light-X.htm
Using bigger lenses is better, because more light can pass thru it.
My first experiment using 3 lenses from reading glass magnifier ($1 each) with f=300mm, dia=75mm.
Setup:
I use 14" diagonal transparency picture to substitued not yet come LCD panel at the same size, about 25 cm in front of it I put 2 of the lens together (f become=150 mm),it will reduce 14" object to around 4,5" size.
http://www.education.eth.net/acads/physics/light-X.htm
case #5.
Third lens is 70 cm in front of previous lens and will produce 70" image on the screen (the screen is 16 feet from projector unit).
http://www.education.eth.net/acads/physics/light-X.htm
case #3.
The image has good brightness (with MH lamp), but not sharp enough with some rainbow effect around dark/black spot, due to poor lenses I use.
Ambience light comes from 5W incandescent lamp.
Next step:
Replace the lenses with good quality lenses, actually I need only 1 lens with f=50 cm to get the same result for the above setup.
Replace transparency picture with real LCD panel. (can't wait it's come)
Questions:
1. What is the best color for inside the projector box?
2. Is it true using more than 1 lens will reduce rainbow effect?
3. How to spread the light evenly to LCD panel?
4. What is the best but cheap material for the screen?
5. How big should I put an AC unit? because it's so damn hot and noise like inside a chopper but without rocking!
Note:
Guys, please update your progress and let us know what's your setup in more details and the important thing is how your projected image looks like. We hope it'll become better and better, ready to put in our livingroom and dramatically changes the way we're watching video!
see you.
Ideal lamp:
>10.000 lumens, cannot convert to ANSI lumens because it's depend on many factor inside the projector.
>5000 degrees Kelvin light temperature (daylight temperature is 5600 d.K)
White LED, >5000d.K light temp. but too small lumens / costwise.
http://www.e-insite.net/ednmag/contents/images/149134.pdf
Halogen lamp, very cheap ($5 complete set),I use this type of lamp for my first experiment (floodlight, 300W/220V (my country standard voltage),5000 lumens,3000d.K, 2000 hrs life), output is not bright enough and some kind of yellowish color, (like watching old movies with old projector in old cinema sometime in 1930es).
Metal-Halide lamp, moderate ($60 complete set), for my second experiment (floodlight, 150W/220V, 11500 lumens,4300d.K, 10000 hrs life), output is very bright and real white!
Both lamps very hot. Temperature in front of it (30 cm, with powerfull cooling fan) measured: 40d.Celcius.
Lenses:
I use basic formula to calculate:
1. 1/dIMAGE-1/dLCD=1/f
2. hIMAGE/hLCD=dIMAGE/dLCD
3. 1/ftotal=1/f1+1/f2
http://www.education.eth.net/acads/physics/light-X.htm
Using bigger lenses is better, because more light can pass thru it.
My first experiment using 3 lenses from reading glass magnifier ($1 each) with f=300mm, dia=75mm.
Setup:
I use 14" diagonal transparency picture to substitued not yet come LCD panel at the same size, about 25 cm in front of it I put 2 of the lens together (f become=150 mm),it will reduce 14" object to around 4,5" size.
http://www.education.eth.net/acads/physics/light-X.htm
case #5.
Third lens is 70 cm in front of previous lens and will produce 70" image on the screen (the screen is 16 feet from projector unit).
http://www.education.eth.net/acads/physics/light-X.htm
case #3.
The image has good brightness (with MH lamp), but not sharp enough with some rainbow effect around dark/black spot, due to poor lenses I use.
Ambience light comes from 5W incandescent lamp.
Next step:
Replace the lenses with good quality lenses, actually I need only 1 lens with f=50 cm to get the same result for the above setup.
Replace transparency picture with real LCD panel. (can't wait it's come)
Questions:
1. What is the best color for inside the projector box?
2. Is it true using more than 1 lens will reduce rainbow effect?
3. How to spread the light evenly to LCD panel?
4. What is the best but cheap material for the screen?
5. How big should I put an AC unit? because it's so damn hot and noise like inside a chopper but without rocking!
Note:
Guys, please update your progress and let us know what's your setup in more details and the important thing is how your projected image looks like. We hope it'll become better and better, ready to put in our livingroom and dramatically changes the way we're watching video!
see you.
soldering
i remember at the beginning of this thread someone talking about having to resolder some ribbon connections on his lcd to get it to work. is there anyway to get longer connectors as my driver board is somewhat trapped due to these ribbons. Also the ribbons seems to have some type of chip mounted on them and i cant really tell how all this is mounted to the lcd itself. anyone else out there have similiar problems or did i just buy an lcd panel to use in my car?
thanks
Jeff
i remember at the beginning of this thread someone talking about having to resolder some ribbon connections on his lcd to get it to work. is there anyway to get longer connectors as my driver board is somewhat trapped due to these ribbons. Also the ribbons seems to have some type of chip mounted on them and i cant really tell how all this is mounted to the lcd itself. anyone else out there have similiar problems or did i just buy an lcd panel to use in my car?
thanks
Jeff
I would say the best color for inside the box is matted black.
I found 10" long ribbon and connectors for my LCD in the Digi-Key Catalog. Real cheap too.
The spacing for the ribbon tape leads it too small to solder. I tried it, but no success. Even tried w/ a magnifying glass. Try to find conductive epoxy. Use magnifying glass and needle to apply the epoxy to each lead. Use caution. This is your best bet.
Vince
I found 10" long ribbon and connectors for my LCD in the Digi-Key Catalog. Real cheap too.
The spacing for the ribbon tape leads it too small to solder. I tried it, but no success. Even tried w/ a magnifying glass. Try to find conductive epoxy. Use magnifying glass and needle to apply the epoxy to each lead. Use caution. This is your best bet.
Vince
Vince and Dwalls32,
As I wrote earlier that I still search for the best lenses to use, I read both of you use lenses you bought from Surplusshed (# L1314 GLASS ASPHERIC CONDENSER LENS and TV PROJ. LENS (is it # L1813 ?)).
I think, I would buy this lenses, because in theory it will work perfect!
The setup is like this:
I'll use 14" LCD panel (smaller size OK, just move the L1314 to get correct
display size). 39,03 cm in front of the LCD put L1314, it'll focus 5,02 cm in front of it (image size will reduced to 4,5 cm). Next put L1813 14,19 cm in front of L1314.
Switch on the lamp, make sure light beam spread evenly to the LCD and VOYLA!!! you get 235,5 cm diagonal size image on the screen (480 cm away from L1314).
If you'll try this setup, please inform us the result.
Thank you.
As I wrote earlier that I still search for the best lenses to use, I read both of you use lenses you bought from Surplusshed (# L1314 GLASS ASPHERIC CONDENSER LENS and TV PROJ. LENS (is it # L1813 ?)).
I think, I would buy this lenses, because in theory it will work perfect!
The setup is like this:
I'll use 14" LCD panel (smaller size OK, just move the L1314 to get correct
display size). 39,03 cm in front of the LCD put L1314, it'll focus 5,02 cm in front of it (image size will reduced to 4,5 cm). Next put L1813 14,19 cm in front of L1314.
Switch on the lamp, make sure light beam spread evenly to the LCD and VOYLA!!! you get 235,5 cm diagonal size image on the screen (480 cm away from L1314).
If you'll try this setup, please inform us the result.
Thank you.
Something just dawned on me that dwalls32 said.
An opaque projector wouldn't work with a LCD module because it is transmissive, but it could work with a DLP because it is reflective.
Most of your projector would alread be build, except for the DLP module and the driver. You may have to change the mirror to a cold mirror and add a color wheel for a single momochrome DLP module.
Something to think about.
An opaque projector wouldn't work with a LCD module because it is transmissive, but it could work with a DLP because it is reflective.
Most of your projector would alread be build, except for the DLP module and the driver. You may have to change the mirror to a cold mirror and add a color wheel for a single momochrome DLP module.
Something to think about.
Back and with progress.
I've got everything in the mail: a totally rocking projector and a viewsonic vg150. dual 650 watt metal halide lamps in the projector. I think I'll have to ressurect my air conditioner project to use it.
I'm totally psyched.
Best of all, I'm going to order 15 replacement light bulbs for $8 a piece. Bulb life of about 750 - 1000 hours supposedly. Upkeep costs should therefore be fairly minimal.
I'll probably get everything end of thanksgiving break. Gimme a week and a half, and I should be watching movies and playing video games on the white stadium across the street from me.
Total costs: ~$360. Shipping is the biggest bitch $36 and $30 for the projector and the flatscreen respectively.
By the way, ebay rocks my world. Wait long enough and you WILL find what you want for the right price.
Matt
I've got everything in the mail: a totally rocking projector and a viewsonic vg150. dual 650 watt metal halide lamps in the projector. I think I'll have to ressurect my air conditioner project to use it.
I'm totally psyched.Best of all, I'm going to order 15 replacement light bulbs for $8 a piece. Bulb life of about 750 - 1000 hours supposedly. Upkeep costs should therefore be fairly minimal.
I'll probably get everything end of thanksgiving break. Gimme a week and a half, and I should be watching movies and playing video games on the white stadium across the street from me.
Total costs: ~$360. Shipping is the biggest bitch $36 and $30 for the projector and the flatscreen respectively.
By the way, ebay rocks my world. Wait long enough and you WILL find what you want for the right price.
Matt
replacement bulbs
Myren, where did you find the bulbs at that price? thats awesome! I'd give up on the whole laser/led thing if I could find hid bulbs at that price.
when you mentioned the air conditioner project that reminded me of a website I saw of a guy in New Zealand who built a jet engine to cool some beer. funny stuff, but I don't remember the link
Myren, where did you find the bulbs at that price? thats awesome! I'd give up on the whole laser/led thing if I could find hid bulbs at that price.
when you mentioned the air conditioner project that reminded me of a website I saw of a guy in New Zealand who built a jet engine to cool some beer. funny stuff, but I don't remember the link
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