ExtremA, class-A strikes back?

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Is 20V/us enough? Is it always?

For small signal work yes.

As Jan has pointed out, slew rate and rise time are not the same. For an opamp operating in the small signal region, you can expect rise times of less than 100 ns - i.e. damn fast and more than you will need for audio.

Further, as Scott has noted, opamps with 100's V/us are readily available now with very good distortion and noise performance.

For small signal work (line amps, RIAA etc) you have no problem in these modern times. Stride forth, avail yourself of the opportunity to appply some leading edge technology and use with confidence!

Just follow the data sheet guidelines for layout, decoupling etc.

:cool:
 
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As mentioned a few pages back, here is a link to my class A headphone amp. This uses a similar control technique for the class A bias being discussed here. I have a subsequent version using two transistors to control the bias.

With this version, using just an EF, distortion is sub 1ppm into 32 Ohms. Certainly with an EF2, higher supply rails to support more power, this kind of performance would be maintained.

I am using a simpler scheme in my Symphony preamp. The current source loads either side of the bias controller make a big difference. If you use resistors instead, the distortion is about 5x higher.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/head...-1-class-headphone-amplifier.html#post3988037
 
This is utter nonsense. The one bit is successive, not starting from zero.
SACD is perfectly happy to encode/decode 20kHz at full scale.

I showed you a recording with high levels of high freq. Saying it cannot be in the face of reality is pretty stupid in my book.

jan


On the whole 20Hz period is a total of 140000 samples (2,8MHz / 20Hz = 140000).


On the whole 20kHz period is a total of 140 samples (2,8MHz / 20kHz = 140). 35 samples on the rising edge of the signal. What would be the quality at full amplitude?


It depends on the filter being used, how much voltage for the filter allows much noise leaves (sample) voltage.


SACD converter can afford to 20kHz full level, but in the real sound of such a value is not present.
 
ExtremA loopgain

Let's return back on topic, please.

I have created a loopgain plot for the original ExtremA. It is a fully differential amplifier, so the task is more complicated, though possible.
 

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@PMA,

Those little caps are Bruno's solution for not needing an output Zobel/Thiele network, I never gave them much thought as he seemed pretty sure of himself that these would be the ticket.

Regardless, thanks for posting the loop gain plot, I was meaning to give that another try tonight as my day was jam packed full of other stuff and I simply didn't have time.
 
Let's forget for a moment that these caps are connected to the OPS emitters and pretend they're connected directly to the output. In this case they are in parallel with the feedback resistors (47k) ; since they're 2.2pF, they'll provide some phase lead around 1MHz, which fits very well with the open loop gain/phase plot on the previous page.

Now, they are connected to the emitters and not the output, and that's why the zobel seems to be unnecessary.
 
ExtremA with minor modifications.. Distortion in bridge configuration , load stepped from 16,8,4 ohm (4ohm-excursion in class AB)
.step rload=16
N-Period=1
Fourier components of I(r40)
DC component:0.000203599
Harmonic Frequency Fourier Normalized Phase Normalized
Number [Hz] Component Component [degree] Phase [deg]
1 1.000e+04 1.335e+00 1.000e+00 178.21° 0.00°
2 2.000e+04 2.918e-08 2.186e-08 3.54° -174.67°
3 3.000e+04 2.336e-06 1.750e-06 -137.03° -315.24°
4 4.000e+04 1.370e-08 1.026e-08 0.34° -177.87°
5 5.000e+04 9.191e-08 6.887e-08 60.57° -117.64°
6 6.000e+04 7.368e-09 5.521e-09 -0.30° -178.51°
7 7.000e+04 6.306e-09 4.725e-09 -50.30° -228.51°
8 8.000e+04 3.776e-09 2.829e-09 -4.25° -182.46°
9 9.000e+04 2.484e-09 1.861e-09 -2.87° -181.08°
Total Harmonic Distortion: 0.000175%
N-Period=1
Fourier components of I(r40)
DC component:0.000203599
Harmonic Frequency Fourier Normalized Phase Normalized
Number [Hz] Component Component [degree] Phase [deg]
1 1.000e+04 1.335e+00 1.000e+00 178.21° 0.00°
2 2.000e+04 2.918e-08 2.186e-08 3.54° -174.67°
3 3.000e+04 2.336e-06 1.750e-06 -137.03° -315.24°
4 4.000e+04 1.370e-08 1.026e-08 0.34° -177.87°
Total Harmonic Distortion: 0.000175%
.step rload=8
N-Period=1
Fourier components of I(r40)
DC component:0.000407197
Harmonic Frequency Fourier Normalized Phase Normalized
Number [Hz] Component Component [degree] Phase [deg]
1 1.000e+04 2.669e+00 1.000e+00 178.21° 0.00°
2 2.000e+04 5.816e-08 2.179e-08 3.79° -174.42°
3 3.000e+04 5.036e-06 1.887e-06 -136.81° -315.02°
4 4.000e+04 2.742e-08 1.027e-08 0.32° -177.89°
5 5.000e+04 2.070e-07 7.757e-08 62.63° -115.58°
6 6.000e+04 1.473e-08 5.518e-09 -0.31° -178.52°
7 7.000e+04 1.477e-08 5.533e-09 -53.81° -232.02°
8 8.000e+04 7.548e-09 2.828e-09 -4.25° -182.46°
9 9.000e+04 4.721e-09 1.769e-09 -0.19° -178.40°
Total Harmonic Distortion: 0.000189%
N-Period=1
Fourier components of I(r40)
DC component:0.000407197
Harmonic Frequency Fourier Normalized Phase Normalized
Number [Hz] Component Component [degree] Phase [deg]
1 1.000e+04 2.669e+00 1.000e+00 178.21° 0.00°
2 2.000e+04 5.816e-08 2.179e-08 3.79° -174.42°
3 3.000e+04 5.036e-06 1.887e-06 -136.81° -315.02°
4 4.000e+04 2.742e-08 1.027e-08 0.32° -177.89°
Total Harmonic Distortion: 0.000189%
.step rload=4
N-Period=1
Fourier components of I(r40)
DC component:0.000814387
Harmonic Frequency Fourier Normalized Phase Normalized
Number [Hz] Component Component [degree] Phase [deg]
1 1.000e+04 5.338e+00 1.000e+00 178.20° 0.00°
2 2.000e+04 1.112e-07 2.083e-08 4.58° -173.62°
3 3.000e+04 1.066e-05 1.997e-06 -129.68° -307.88°
4 4.000e+04 5.517e-08 1.034e-08 -1.04° -179.24°
5 5.000e+04 8.334e-07 1.561e-07 53.20° -125.00°
6 6.000e+04 2.820e-08 5.282e-09 6.62° -171.58°
7 7.000e+04 2.334e-06 4.373e-07 172.67° -5.54°
8 8.000e+04 1.216e-08 2.278e-09 5.80° -172.41°
9 9.000e+04 1.277e-06 2.393e-07 -8.14° -186.34°
Total Harmonic Distortion: 0.000206%
N-Period=1
Fourier components of I(r40)
DC component:0.000814387
Harmonic Frequency Fourier Normalized Phase Normalized
Number [Hz] Component Component [degree] Phase [deg]
1 1.000e+04 5.338e+00 1.000e+00 178.20° 0.00°
2 2.000e+04 1.112e-07 2.083e-08 4.58° -173.62°
3 3.000e+04 1.066e-05 1.997e-06 -129.68° -307.88°
4 4.000e+04 5.517e-08 1.034e-08 -1.04° -179.24°
Total Harmonic Distortion: 0.000200%
Pictures
square, load current for 16,8,4 ohm, SR (for load voltage) cca 50V/us, RC response
AC plot for loop gain
 

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FWIW what is called the Allison connection was published by Barry Blesser in 1969 in the JSSC.

Thx- I'll take a look. I believe I read it already as JC and I flew to NY on a great airplane deal and were at this AES presentation. During the Q and A afterwards, I said to JC that this had already been shown.

[The commercial JBL power amp used the diode across the Re of the OPS.]

AES paper shows a smoother transistion from class A to AB.

[presented at 67th convention. 1980 Oct31/Nov 3 New York]


THx-RNMarsh
 
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Thx- I'll check it out also.

THx-RNMarsh

Sorry, submitted in 1969 the actual publication was June issue 1970. He shows the basic connection using feedback to eliminate the Vbe error of the output device, but does not go into a complementary version for use as an output stage. The obviousness or non-obviousness of that is in the eye and imagination of the beholder.

EDIT - I forgot what an interesting guy he was...http://www.blesser.net/downloads/eContact Loud Music.pdf
 
Last edited:
Disabled Account
Joined 2012
Sorry, submitted in 1969 the actual publication was June issue 1970. He shows the basic connection using feedback to eliminate the Vbe error of the output device, but does not go into a complementary version for use as an output stage. The obviousness or non-obviousness of that is in the eye and imagination of the beholder.

EDIT - I forgot what an interesting guy he was...http://www.blesser.net/downloads/eContact Loud Music.pdf

Nice paper.... also saw his web site.... good references there but hasnt been updated since 2010. where is he today? [I fear the worse].

Mainly, I am wondering if this concept can be used here for the ExtremA to keep the distortion down when leaving class A.

THx-RNMarsh
 
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