Thank you JB and Pano and all contributors for this design, write-up and all the tweaks!
I'm going to build a pair and I have a couple of areas where I could do with some guidance as I get started, if folks would feel free to comment.
I have Peerless 830669s coming but at the moment it seems very difficult to source the TC9FDs for a reasonable price - at least in Australia. Is the Vifa TG9FD10-04 (pictured below, diagonally, with its response chart) something that I could use as a substitute for the TC9, without having to completely reinvent the wheel, even though it's nominally 4 ohms?
I have a DIY "Big Betsys" using the LiiAudio F-18 (which I like) but because that took a long time to ship, LiiAudio kindly sent me some discontinued F-6 drivers free of charge or shipping cost, which I placed in some nice solid baffles to practise my carpentry and for proof-of-concept. I happen to think they came out just magic. I now plan to use this timber for the Manzanitas and was wondering whether I could use these little FR drivers instead of the Vifa TC9s or TG9FD10-04s? How would I go about working out required changes to placement and the crossover? (apologies for noob question)
Is it OK to use this solid timber for the baffle - it's 26mm or 1" thick?
Incidentally, I've order Jantzen 15AWG 20mH inductors from a local supplier (SpeakerBug) as the Erse were hard to find and get shipped economically.
Thanks once again for the inspiration and guidance.
Simon
I'm going to build a pair and I have a couple of areas where I could do with some guidance as I get started, if folks would feel free to comment.
I have Peerless 830669s coming but at the moment it seems very difficult to source the TC9FDs for a reasonable price - at least in Australia. Is the Vifa TG9FD10-04 (pictured below, diagonally, with its response chart) something that I could use as a substitute for the TC9, without having to completely reinvent the wheel, even though it's nominally 4 ohms?
I have a DIY "Big Betsys" using the LiiAudio F-18 (which I like) but because that took a long time to ship, LiiAudio kindly sent me some discontinued F-6 drivers free of charge or shipping cost, which I placed in some nice solid baffles to practise my carpentry and for proof-of-concept. I happen to think they came out just magic. I now plan to use this timber for the Manzanitas and was wondering whether I could use these little FR drivers instead of the Vifa TC9s or TG9FD10-04s? How would I go about working out required changes to placement and the crossover? (apologies for noob question)
Is it OK to use this solid timber for the baffle - it's 26mm or 1" thick?
Incidentally, I've order Jantzen 15AWG 20mH inductors from a local supplier (SpeakerBug) as the Erse were hard to find and get shipped economically.
Thanks once again for the inspiration and guidance.
Simon
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Those are some snazzy looking baffles! Yes you can use solid wood. Be sure to let the back side of the fullrange breath!
Yes, you can use other fullrange drivers, they will work. But of course you will have to tweak the crossover to suit the driver. The series resistor with controls the output level of mid/tweet will need adjusting (it often does anyway, to fit the room) to get a good level. If the impedance of the driver is not 8 ohms, that will also lead to a different resistor and a different high pass crossover cap. Lower impedance = larger value cap. The trap is almost certainly going to be different, too, as it's optimized for that specific Vifa.
That said, I've used many different fullrange drivers and two different tweeters in this configuration with success. But I have the benefit of measuring tools and a good working knowledge of crossovers. Those make it easy to quickly get good results.
Use what you can get, but be prepared to do crossover work.
Yes, you can use other fullrange drivers, they will work. But of course you will have to tweak the crossover to suit the driver. The series resistor with controls the output level of mid/tweet will need adjusting (it often does anyway, to fit the room) to get a good level. If the impedance of the driver is not 8 ohms, that will also lead to a different resistor and a different high pass crossover cap. Lower impedance = larger value cap. The trap is almost certainly going to be different, too, as it's optimized for that specific Vifa.
That said, I've used many different fullrange drivers and two different tweeters in this configuration with success. But I have the benefit of measuring tools and a good working knowledge of crossovers. Those make it easy to quickly get good results.
Use what you can get, but be prepared to do crossover work.
Hi Pano,
I've been thinking about doing something similar to what Simonism is planning and using a different full range or tweeter from the Vifa TC9FD. I'm willing to spend more money on it in order to get the best high end performance.
Most tweeters that I have looked at are closed back and I assume they are not going to work well in a OB configuration. Also most of them don't go low enough to cross over with the 830669, which it seems to me can't go above 1KHz. Maybe not even that high.
Do you have any suggestions for specific models of tweeters, or even full range, that will give excellent performance at the high end.
I'm kind of spoiled by the SB29RDNC in my Piccolos and don't want to give up to much performance on the high end in going to OB.
I've been thinking about doing something similar to what Simonism is planning and using a different full range or tweeter from the Vifa TC9FD. I'm willing to spend more money on it in order to get the best high end performance.
Most tweeters that I have looked at are closed back and I assume they are not going to work well in a OB configuration. Also most of them don't go low enough to cross over with the 830669, which it seems to me can't go above 1KHz. Maybe not even that high.
Do you have any suggestions for specific models of tweeters, or even full range, that will give excellent performance at the high end.
I'm kind of spoiled by the SB29RDNC in my Piccolos and don't want to give up to much performance on the high end in going to OB.
There are a couple of dome tweeters that can be crossed pretty low (besides Bliesma), like the TW030WA13/14 but it will be difficult to cut the 830669 steeply enough to avoid the breakup at 2k. Maybe a notch suffices?
And most dome tweeters don´t have much dipole character anyway!?
I´m gonna try a HF108 coupled with the 830669 to see if I can get them to mate well on OB. The OB experts will probably shudder to think of it but why not? Might put them in an enclosure long-term although I really do like the performance of the 830669 on OB. I don´t even boost it via DSP, just a steep HP at 35Hz and as John says the midrange is quite good for a big woofer.
Used an Alpair 7.3 from 1kHz on up for a while but like it crossed lower much better. A (much) smaller fullrange should do better crossed that high.
And most dome tweeters don´t have much dipole character anyway!?
I´m gonna try a HF108 coupled with the 830669 to see if I can get them to mate well on OB. The OB experts will probably shudder to think of it but why not? Might put them in an enclosure long-term although I really do like the performance of the 830669 on OB. I don´t even boost it via DSP, just a steep HP at 35Hz and as John says the midrange is quite good for a big woofer.
Used an Alpair 7.3 from 1kHz on up for a while but like it crossed lower much better. A (much) smaller fullrange should do better crossed that high.
I've been trying to avoid designing a crossover myself. Would much rather use a design from someone who actually knows what they are doing.
However, I may not have much of a choice if I want to build a Manzanita with a different full range.
It looks like you can crossover the Peerless up to about 1KHz. Can you tell me where the crossover frequency is at in the Manzanita. That's probably the best starting point for a new design.
Thanks.
However, I may not have much of a choice if I want to build a Manzanita with a different full range.
It looks like you can crossover the Peerless up to about 1KHz. Can you tell me where the crossover frequency is at in the Manzanita. That's probably the best starting point for a new design.
Thanks.
I've been experimenting with Markaudio Pluvia 7.2HD. I was not happy with tc9.. it was ok, linear, easy on ear but sounded little bit lifeless, lacked focus and detail. Im still lazy to measure the pluvias. So far I tuned the crossover by ear and by looking at simulation.. I disconected 4.7mh inductor because it was creating bump at 1khz, and changed 6.2uf to 11uf. These drivers dont sound as linear as vifas, but imaging, detail, focus is on another level.
For about 2-3 months. They were playing pretty much non stop if you are reffering to break in. My manzanitas are connected to tv, media library and tuner.. there is always something going on 😄 dont get me wrong, its great sounding driver.. but pluvias are, at least to my ear, more musical and give out more information, despite slight coloration.
Hi,
time to time I came back to this thread and my resistance is now broken
... and I started to collect the parts, after I finally could find two Vifa's here in Europe today.
I choose the Peerless-version and would need some advice regarding inductors. I can find 18 or 22mH with 15awg and 0,52/0,57 ohms; which one - if any - would suit best? With 18 mH I would loose some bass, I think. Further, would the DCR be okay? Regarding the 0,4 mH and the 2 mH, is there a requirement for awg and DCR?
Thank you very much in advance.
time to time I came back to this thread and my resistance is now broken
... and I started to collect the parts, after I finally could find two Vifa's here in Europe today.I choose the Peerless-version and would need some advice regarding inductors. I can find 18 or 22mH with 15awg and 0,52/0,57 ohms; which one - if any - would suit best? With 18 mH I would loose some bass, I think. Further, would the DCR be okay? Regarding the 0,4 mH and the 2 mH, is there a requirement for awg and DCR?
Thank you very much in advance.