A "one size fits all" approach to sound reinforcement usually does not
.I always brought a lot of different "suits" to fit every need.
Since 1974, out of thousands of singing musicians, only one, Jr. Brown, has not wanted to use stage (or in ear) monitors, though the rest of his band does. You are an exception!
To make most musicians happy, stage monitors are often too loud for the room, so the PA ends up just adding in what there is not enough of- direct rather than reflected sound.
Its good that in ear monitors are largely replacing stage monitors, makes it far easier to get good front of house sound without too much level.
That said, for "run and gun" shows, they can add too much time unless worked out in advance.
Art
Well, that's a gem - I never would have guessed that's how it really is. Was going to mention in-ears as must be quite an alleviation to the comb filtering problem. A lot of the fellows at the open mic I attend have them, but in the form of hearing aids.
So. I suppose to help out the sound guy as a singer / acoustic guitar player, you could bring your own pedal board, preset with all that you want on it for both vocal and guitar, your own headset mic, in-ear monitor system - and just present an XLR output or two to "plug me in". That way you could bring "your own studio's sound" wherever you go.
I may pursue it. I have a Behringer mixer with compressors and reverb effects, which could do it for me. Battery power is an issue with that thing, as it needs +/- 15 and +5; not particularly easy voltages to make from a deck of 16500 batteries. I thought of running an inverter, but no way - what a mess. 2-3 cables "on me" isnt so attractive either...
Sorry to tangent your thread Joe! I'm literally sick in bed at the moment, with not much else to think about.
The problem is "your own studio's sound" transported into a another acoustic environment may not translate well. For example, reverb sounding good to you will sound "washed out" beyond the critical distance, the distance from a sound source at which the direct sound and the reflected sound are equal in level.
Since you can't "back off" a headset mic to adjust your vocal dynamics, more compression is required than one on a mic stand.
10dB compression may require +10dB PA gain, putting your vocal (and or) guitar on the verge of feedback (the mic regenerating the amplified sound). And if the monitors (and the PA) have been equalized for the "house mics", substituting another may not sound right, even if feedback is not a problem.
More often than not, the bring "your own studio's sound" idea is a sound guy's nightmare, there are too many potential problems that can't be addressed without access to the pedal board.
The few that "get it right" have made extensive adjustments to compensate for the sound system and room properties.
So it looks like I be needin' to learn the ropes of performance, versus trying to engineer my way out of it. Copy that!
JJ- all your comments are always welcome, keep them coming!
OK Art, that did it, you need to write a book! The Audio side and also the decades of experience and stories. Plus you are a great writer, I would buy it!
I am not kidding about this, have you ever thought about it?
Attached are notes for next studio session one week from today. More explanation, and hopefully some great with and without horn comparisons. The finger picking for comparison I already have is good, but does not give the Full Monty. Any suggestions to pull this off would not be ignored!!
OK Art, that did it, you need to write a book! The Audio side and also the decades of experience and stories. Plus you are a great writer, I would buy it!
I am not kidding about this, have you ever thought about it?
Attached are notes for next studio session one week from today. More explanation, and hopefully some great with and without horn comparisons. The finger picking for comparison I already have is good, but does not give the Full Monty. Any suggestions to pull this off would not be ignored!!
Thanks for the complement!
I have at times thought of writing a book, but from the general reactions I get when telling my stories, I think it's market would be rather limited
Regarding your studio notes:
"The horns are covered. This increases the lows/mids under 1,000 Hz by 25 dB"
Perhaps at some specific frequency peaks, but no where near that on average.
"The horns are similar to high end horn stereo speaker systems like Klipsch."
High end horn systems like Klipsch use expansion profiles ranging between conical and exponential, yours is more similar to a folded pipe.
"The amp circuit board and controls can be put in the guitar itself as an option."
The Folded Horn Acoustic Guitar Patent # 10,777,172 was all about it being a self-contained unit, a much more saleable option than a heavy guitar with internal speakers that requires external amplification.
The speakers you are using could easily be fried in minutes with relatively low powered guitar amplifiers, especially if allowed to feed back.
"If you turn the volume up to 9-1/2 with high tone settings, you can get the guitar to feedback with control."
That can be done with any acoustic/electric by adjusting amplifier volume and tone controls with it's speaker near the guitar. The guitar's volume could be set to feed back at any number the player would like.
I have at times thought of writing a book, but from the general reactions I get when telling my stories, I think it's market would be rather limited
Regarding your studio notes:
"The horns are covered. This increases the lows/mids under 1,000 Hz by 25 dB"
Perhaps at some specific frequency peaks, but no where near that on average.
"The horns are similar to high end horn stereo speaker systems like Klipsch."
High end horn systems like Klipsch use expansion profiles ranging between conical and exponential, yours is more similar to a folded pipe.
"The amp circuit board and controls can be put in the guitar itself as an option."
The Folded Horn Acoustic Guitar Patent # 10,777,172 was all about it being a self-contained unit, a much more saleable option than a heavy guitar with internal speakers that requires external amplification.
The speakers you are using could easily be fried in minutes with relatively low powered guitar amplifiers, especially if allowed to feed back.
"If you turn the volume up to 9-1/2 with high tone settings, you can get the guitar to feedback with control."
That can be done with any acoustic/electric by adjusting amplifier volume and tone controls with it's speaker near the guitar. The guitar's volume could be set to feed back at any number the player would like.
Art - there is no way my speakers will be fried with my amp setup. The speakers can handle more than the amp I am using. I have tested it, and it ROCKS!
OK maybe not 25 dB everywhere, but pretty damn close to 25 dB average, see below.
Man you could write it!
"Soundman 1974-2024" or "The Godfather of Sound: How the Sausage was Made in Live American Music"
Who goes to an Art Museum every day? Who goes to hear the Symphony every day? Who even reads books much anymore? OK I do, do not like screen reading.
The culture for young people is music, wonderful in my opinion. We may not all like the same music, but it is in the ear of every young person, every day.
So a technical book? Dead in the water. But what about a book that blends the technical (many young people have DAW's as you know), then talk about inside the music scene in the past, present, and gives advice for the future of music? Me thinks a winner, think about it. I mean who the hell else could do it, somebody that is 30 or 40? I think not!
OK maybe not 25 dB everywhere, but pretty damn close to 25 dB average, see below.
Man you could write it!
"Soundman 1974-2024" or "The Godfather of Sound: How the Sausage was Made in Live American Music"
Who goes to an Art Museum every day? Who goes to hear the Symphony every day? Who even reads books much anymore? OK I do, do not like screen reading.
The culture for young people is music, wonderful in my opinion. We may not all like the same music, but it is in the ear of every young person, every day.
So a technical book? Dead in the water. But what about a book that blends the technical (many young people have DAW's as you know), then talk about inside the music scene in the past, present, and gives advice for the future of music? Me thinks a winner, think about it. I mean who the hell else could do it, somebody that is 30 or 40? I think not!
Attachments
"Case studies in Sound Reinforcement; Delivering Excellence for Most Any Performance Situation".
Preface: "As soon as we walked in, I knew we were in trouble. Big Trouble. The show..."
The rest of your book would just "write itself" ;')
Keep everyone up to 2am, after the Amzn truck stops by.
Preface: "As soon as we walked in, I knew we were in trouble. Big Trouble. The show..."
The rest of your book would just "write itself" ;')
Keep everyone up to 2am, after the Amzn truck stops by.
Plus of course Art your book would be read by many young people on an iPad, don't need an actual book.
In regards to some of the other items (amp internal or external...) you mentioned above, my Third Patent is officially published, so it is pending, but not yet granted. Since it is similar to the first patent, it might not get granted, but published patents are official searchable prior art in the USPTO database. A published patent can't hold up in court of course, but when presented in court in addition to a granted patent, it can be used as prior art. Truth is nobody knows how strong their patent is until you are in court, if needed. Then of course, as has been mentioned before by others on the post, the money and bigger legal team has a serious advantage, but underdogs do win at times.
I hope I sell my Folded Horn Acoustic Guitar intellectual property (patents, patent drawings, working drawings, 3D CAD models, 2D CAD iterations, designs improved literally ten times, design hand sketches, horn tuning calculations, CNC programs, CNC machining techniques, CNC cutters, CNC tool paths, wood material prep prior to cutting, assembly techniques and fitting, electronics used (not proprietary of course), guitar intonation, lessons learned...
It is possible that I never sell my guitar, but I did it because I love music and guitars and innovation, and trying new ideas. In other words it has been FUN!
Anyway Art, I can tell you are passionate about music, audio, engineering, sound...I think you would have a blast doing it. You are probably like me, sit in front of a laptop too much, but that of course is an advantage for writing. Oh yeah and if a publisher wants writing samples from you, BAM diyAudio is loaded with your writing. Or of course you could go independent, not really sure about the costs involved.
I know one thing for sure, it would not cost you much to do the actual writing, just sit down, and as JJ said, it would write itself, BAM! The costs after that, not sure. If it sells, great! If not, who ******* cares, you did something you enjoy, and it would be around FOREVER. Hey none of us are going to live forever, but having something that outlasts you would be quite the accomplishment. I think people enjoying what you did after you are dead is a little weird to think about I know, but pretty damn cool!
As for me, I really hope somebody buys my IP and takes it to market. I know for sure I can not do that myself. Now if I was 30 years old, then I might try.
Last night I jammed with my footswitch, popped that thing off and on at will, amp has a slight delay of course, but it goes from approx 85 dB to BAM 112 dB. I must capture that on video, it just outright makes me laugh when I am playing, night and day power difference, and the tone is great, total blast!
Art, per your quote above: "I have at times thought of writing a book, but from the general reactions I get when telling my stories, I think it's market would be rather limited". What exactly do you mean, are people intimidated by your knowledge? I am not, I see it as a great way to learn. Plus reactions online are much different than reading a book, where you don't need to defend yourself, or feel you must comment.
Hey talking about inventions and writing, how about the printing press, Gutenberg in the year 1440! People said paper would die with the internet, total ********.
Let the FUN begin!!
In regards to some of the other items (amp internal or external...) you mentioned above, my Third Patent is officially published, so it is pending, but not yet granted. Since it is similar to the first patent, it might not get granted, but published patents are official searchable prior art in the USPTO database. A published patent can't hold up in court of course, but when presented in court in addition to a granted patent, it can be used as prior art. Truth is nobody knows how strong their patent is until you are in court, if needed. Then of course, as has been mentioned before by others on the post, the money and bigger legal team has a serious advantage, but underdogs do win at times.
I hope I sell my Folded Horn Acoustic Guitar intellectual property (patents, patent drawings, working drawings, 3D CAD models, 2D CAD iterations, designs improved literally ten times, design hand sketches, horn tuning calculations, CNC programs, CNC machining techniques, CNC cutters, CNC tool paths, wood material prep prior to cutting, assembly techniques and fitting, electronics used (not proprietary of course), guitar intonation, lessons learned...
It is possible that I never sell my guitar, but I did it because I love music and guitars and innovation, and trying new ideas. In other words it has been FUN!
Anyway Art, I can tell you are passionate about music, audio, engineering, sound...I think you would have a blast doing it. You are probably like me, sit in front of a laptop too much, but that of course is an advantage for writing. Oh yeah and if a publisher wants writing samples from you, BAM diyAudio is loaded with your writing. Or of course you could go independent, not really sure about the costs involved.
I know one thing for sure, it would not cost you much to do the actual writing, just sit down, and as JJ said, it would write itself, BAM! The costs after that, not sure. If it sells, great! If not, who ******* cares, you did something you enjoy, and it would be around FOREVER. Hey none of us are going to live forever, but having something that outlasts you would be quite the accomplishment. I think people enjoying what you did after you are dead is a little weird to think about I know, but pretty damn cool!
As for me, I really hope somebody buys my IP and takes it to market. I know for sure I can not do that myself. Now if I was 30 years old, then I might try.
Last night I jammed with my footswitch, popped that thing off and on at will, amp has a slight delay of course, but it goes from approx 85 dB to BAM 112 dB. I must capture that on video, it just outright makes me laugh when I am playing, night and day power difference, and the tone is great, total blast!
Art, per your quote above: "I have at times thought of writing a book, but from the general reactions I get when telling my stories, I think it's market would be rather limited". What exactly do you mean, are people intimidated by your knowledge? I am not, I see it as a great way to learn. Plus reactions online are much different than reading a book, where you don't need to defend yourself, or feel you must comment.
Hey talking about inventions and writing, how about the printing press, Gutenberg in the year 1440! People said paper would die with the internet, total ********.
Let the FUN begin!!
If I were to guess, your manufacturing process would be unique to you and the resources you happen to have available. A luthier would build the body using the same techniques ordinarily employed; horn passages from bent wood (like the sides) with kerfing to give some structure to the edge attachment to the back and chamber dividing panel. Probably some thick wood blocks where the speakers mount, as they do at the neck joint and tail.
It would be interesting to see what a seasoned builder like Yamaha would come up with for a practical manufacturing process. What it would look like before they glued the back in place, all the electronics in there. A back door for field replaceable drivers? I'd hate to have to take the back off, with all those kerf'd connections to the internal passage wall edges
Then it's them, not your knowledge and experiences. They're just not paying attention, as doing so takes effort. People these days - and particularly those engaged in the area of entertainment - I suspect need the closing scenes of one of "The Equalizer" movies spoon-fed to them in 4k and 100db, in order to truly hold their attention - for 15 minutes at least. Anything less, ho-hum; I'm bored, let's go do something different...
Grade school teachers have and have had the same problem for a while now. They just cant possibly output anything even close to what's instantly available on the connected hand-held and in infinite supply in the context of games and content. Nevermind sustain a comparative level of performance every single day. So they're perceived as boring too.
More than once at the open mic "Was that 3 songs?" "Yeah - where'd you go?" I dont say that... But I realize I do it for me and if what I'm doing holds someone's attention, fine, if they're off in some other world in that time, not my problem. I'm certainly not going to kill myself by stepping it up in vain attempt to hold that which is un-hold-able, relative to everything there is available outside the present moment.
Yeah I understand that Art and JJ - but my guess Art, is you have many, many stories you have not even shared yet.
Fifty years of behind the scenes in Rock and Roll, come on! I mean look at Spinal Tap. OK that was pretty silly, but it was fun. How about a more serious yet fun version of that? As I said, all technical, dead in the doorway, but maybe 30% technical and 70% stories? Oh the potential! Think about it! You could always just start writing and see where it goes. If you get the felling this sucks, kill it, but if you get the warm and fuzzy, keep going!
Fifty years of behind the scenes in Rock and Roll, come on! I mean look at Spinal Tap. OK that was pretty silly, but it was fun. How about a more serious yet fun version of that? As I said, all technical, dead in the doorway, but maybe 30% technical and 70% stories? Oh the potential! Think about it! You could always just start writing and see where it goes. If you get the felling this sucks, kill it, but if you get the warm and fuzzy, keep going!
I really hope you get a positive one from them. Given their engineering prowess, I'd love to see what they'd come up with, as their interpretation of your licensed idea.
I mean given that they do transacoustic already, it even seems a logical jump to be able to include an amplified dry sound of the guitar, a possible vocal (mic) input, along with the reverb/delay effects their current system radiates from the guitar body. All in a single entity, portable unit designed to overcome high background ambient sound levels found on city streets, in subways and within crowds of people.
For sure, by now, it's a bean counters call. Probably look at how their transacoustic sales are doing, what they could charge per unit, development costs, cost of your license. Those numbers are no prediction of a runaway success, BTW. They say Intel had the chance to be in iPhone, but, after running Apples initial sales numbers, declined the opportunity.
If Yamaha built a war-horse version, intended for "ground-mobile" level of service (outdoor camping, beach parties, road trips, busking) I think even I'd buy one, retail. Another manufacturer "KLOS" guitars here in the US, I think would find the novelty of your invention a tempting product to build.
Built from carbon fiber, the FHAG could probably come in under 10 pounds even with a substantial battery pack, and it could be made (semi) affordably.
With Joe's present construction, it would have to retail at too high of a price (upwards of $10,000) for the market segment that might be interested.
JJ - I am hoping Yamaha responds again, I know he finds it to be very interesting, he already told me that. He is a guitar guy and a Pro Audio guy, caught his eye right away. The question is, what about the general guitar buying public?
I am sure if somebody does buy my FHAG IP/Patent, they would make some fairly large changes to fit their operations and marketing. I think other materials are an option, carbon fiber, sure. I have a friend in the injection molding business that wants me to design and build a mold, so he can mold a plastic folded horn body every 60 seconds. That would be great other than the mold costing a fortune, but it is feasible.
I love the sound of wood myself, and if this went to production with CNC, as I have it now, it is totally feasible to set this up with multiple CNC machines and pop one body out every day, without any up front mold costs, more than one way to do it for sure.
Art - I think your price sounds about right, so def a high end instrument, which has its ups and downs.
Thank you all for the comments, keep them coming, last studio session this Friday!
I am sure if somebody does buy my FHAG IP/Patent, they would make some fairly large changes to fit their operations and marketing. I think other materials are an option, carbon fiber, sure. I have a friend in the injection molding business that wants me to design and build a mold, so he can mold a plastic folded horn body every 60 seconds. That would be great other than the mold costing a fortune, but it is feasible.
I love the sound of wood myself, and if this went to production with CNC, as I have it now, it is totally feasible to set this up with multiple CNC machines and pop one body out every day, without any up front mold costs, more than one way to do it for sure.
Art - I think your price sounds about right, so def a high end instrument, which has its ups and downs.
Thank you all for the comments, keep them coming, last studio session this Friday!
A subset among them would have to appreciate the package integration; can perform in relatively high ambient noise situations and carry just one thing in / out. As in pull it out of the case, throw the strap over your shoulder, turn it on, tune up - and play. I think reducing your carry-load by 1/2 (items) would be quite appealing.