Giant Subwoofer?

[zenmasterbrian]

http://www.soundsplinter.com/

here is the 15, don't see anything about 18 yet

http://www.soundsplinter.com/rlp15_premium_series_15_inch_DIY_subwoofer_information.html

 

[mike.e]

What are you doing.

Lets recap/.

....
Some would say this is not sound. I don't know. But I want to experiement. I want to make a large built in subwoofer with a highpower amp hardwired to 220VAC....

Think of this as an InfraWoofer.

Who knows of giant raw drivers?? How much $$$? Specs? Anyone else done anything like this?

Ok so youve been shown many woofers.Why dont you just go buy a few avalanche or adire 15"s and a plate amp and experiment?

 

[zenmasterbrian]

Mike, I've not seen you on this thread before.

I'm mostly interested in infrasonics, lower than the fs of most drivers. Thats why I wanted to look at these huge ones.

There are actually many dimensions to this, like driver, enclosure, perhaps operating below fs, the amp, and more.

If you've seen some particularly interesting large drivers, tell us about them.

Otherwise, best to just sit back.

 

[mike.e]

Mike, I've not seen you on this thread before.

I'm mostly interested in infrasonics, lower than the fs of most drivers. Thats why I wanted to look at these huge ones.

There are actually many dimensions to this, like driver, enclosure, perhaps operating below fs, the amp, and more.

If you've seen some particularly interesting large drivers, tell us about them.

Otherwise, best to just sit back.

The amplifier has almost no effect.It simply needs to output enough power at LF with enough damping factor,which 99% of amplifiers will.

Dont operate drivers below fs unless you enjoy distortion
The enclosure will have to be large.
Im just wondering what the point of this huge thread is.

Huge woofer fetish?

I posted awhile back.

Youve got to realise that there is NO MARKET for massive woofers.
Multiples of woofers,push pull mounted,low tuned ported will give THE SAME RESULT.but in a smaller package because it can be modular.

Searching for the most magnificent,largest woofer,with lowest Fs doesnt help you know what to buy.

 

[zenmasterbrian]

Hello Mike. New Zealand? One interesting thing about this board is that it runs 24 hours, because of people on different contintents.

<<<
The amplifier has almost no effect.It simply needs to output enough power at LF with enough damping factor,which 99% of amplifiers will.
>>>

Enough could turn out to be quite a bit. That could make some unorthodox approaches attractive. I've only started to explore these.

<<<<
Dont operate drivers below fs unless you enjoy distortion
The enclosure will have to be large.
>>>>

I started this thread with the assumption that operation below fs was off the table. Early on people posted so many examples, that I have had to recant.

I still don't claim to know what all of the issues are, or what a best approach might be.

I encourage you to look at the start of this thead. There is discussion of a sub from BagEnd.

I also encourage you to look early as SteveCallas introduces his magnificent sub, which works below fs to 10hz.

Also, because of the complexity of this, I have started another thread specifically to deal with operation below fs. I encourage you to jump in and explain your POV.

I start it by talking about a circuit and approach offered by Elliot Sound Products. I wouldn't even know about that, if it were not for the many contributors to this thread.

<<<<
Im just wondering what the point of this huge thread is.

Huge woofer fetish?
>>>>

Perhaps. Mostly I'm interested in infrasonics, an area that has been explored by a few giant pipe organs.

DIY projects often tend to be extreme.

<<<<<
Youve got to realise that there is NO MARKET for massive woofers.
Multiples of woofers,push pull mounted,low tuned ported will give THE SAME RESULT.but in a smaller package because it can be modular.
>>>>>

I understand the problem of their being no market, and extreme prices. But maybe that will change?

Multiple woofers don't have a lower fs. One giant one might.

Using bigger driver is usually prefered in audiophile apps, over using multiple ones. The multiple ones cover a greater linear expanse. So the multiple ones will start beaming at a lower frequeny than the one bigger one.

For audiophile, or home audio, one bigger driver is usally prefered.

<<<<
Searching for the most magnificent,largest woofer,with lowest Fs doesnt help you know what to buy.

>>>>

I'm not sure if I follow you. If you think there are other factors to consider, perhaps you would like to explain.

I agree that no simple formula dictates any decision. The longer this thread has continued, the more I have had to revise my assumptions.

I still am benefiting from seeing people list the most extreme woofers, and talk about their experiences with them.

 

[SteveCallas]

Operating below Fs doesn't inherently mean high distortion, just reduced sensitivity. Tuning below the Fs is one way to achieve relatively low distortion below Fs.

 

[mike.e]

Operating below Fs doesn't inherently mean high distortion, just reduced sensitivity. Tuning below the Fs is one way to achieve relatively low distortion below Fs.

Hi Steve.
That relies on the compliance to be linear,which it isnt.

Also, because of the complexity of this, I have started another thread specifically to deal with operation below fs. I encourage you to jump in and explain your POV.

You started a thread on my behalf?Cheers! Did you do a search?


Zenmasterbrian - Sorry for the attitude- it just seemed that youd posted a thread,without searching,and getting everyone else to get you the information.

I encourage you to look at the start of this thead. There is discussion of a sub from BagEnd.

I dont like the bagend approach. ~12dB+ of EQ at the low end brings huge power and excursion demands.

I also encourage you to look early as SteveCallas introduces his magnificent sub, which works below fs to 10hz.

Yep its a good idea to tune low and with large volume.The only negative is the one long dimension which could have a nasty resonance,depends on xover.
<<<<

I understand the problem of their being no market, and extreme prices. But maybe that will change?

I dont see any reason why it would

Multiple woofers don't have a lower fs. One giant one might.

One giant one,will cost so much no one can afford it ;-)

Using bigger driver is usually prefered in audiophile apps, over using multiple ones. The multiple ones cover a greater linear expanse. So the multiple ones will start beaming at a lower frequeny than the one bigger one.

For audiophile, or home audio, one bigger driver is usally prefered.

Thats a big generalisation you know .Ofcourse we arent talking about beaming here,we are talking about 16metre wavelengths and 0.5m diameter cones.

Personally,Id go for a few 'good' 15"s or similar,push pull mounted to cancel 2HD. Two drivers per enclosure,to ensure smaller cabinet dimensions and portability.Then power with an EP2500 or better.

Heres a good link for you
Revel Performa B15

Wilson Audio Watch Dog

Kleiss S15A

Genelec HTS6

Adire SaDhara

Bag End S21E

ServoDrive Contrabass

SRT Hydrosonic HS-12S

CoDrive CB1

Snell ICS Sub24

Triad Inroom Platinum

Velodyne DD18


http://www.ultimateavmag.com/features/604way/
http://www.ultimateavmag.com/features/704way/
http://www.ultimateavmag.com/features/1004way/

Cheers
Mike.e

edit: added more responses.

 

[zenmasterbrian]

<<<
Yep its a good idea to tune low and with large volume.The only negative is the one long dimension which could have a nasty resonance,depends on xover.
>>>

I asked Steve about that too. I think he was trying to maximize the results, while still letting it go through a door way.

I'm quite impressed.


<<<
I dont like the bagend approach. ~12dB+ of EQ at the low end brings huge power and excursion demands.
>>>

I feel the same way. I think Steve is getting flatness from his enclosure and the room dimensions.

Generally, I think you will need 12dB EQ, and all the power and excusion.

That is why I'm still keeping this thread open because I believe there will be lower fs drivers at afordable cost.

I believe there is increased interest in such.

 

[pinkmouse]

...That is why I'm still keeping this thread open...

Brian, you don't control what threads get closed or stay open, the members, (and in extreme cases, the mods), do.

 

[zenmasterbrian]

I misspoke. What I meant to say is that I'm trying to keep it alive.

Lots of ground has been covered. Just a ways up, I summarized most of the links that have been posted, to make it easier for people who want to jump in.

 

[SteveCallas]

If you don't demand reference level playback, take a look at the TC Sounds LMS 4000. In an enclosure about the size of mine, you can tune to 9hz or so and be quite flat in room to single digits before EQ. The driver will not suffer any Bl nonlinearity distortions either due to the motor technology, and it would only need 250 watts. Only problem is output isn't so hot.

 

[TwisterZ]

Hello All,

This is my first time here. I was searching for giant subwoofers and this forum came up. My DIY subwoofer is 19"HX24"DX144"W so I guess that would be Giant Sized. At least my theater room is 24' wide and 16' deep. I built the sub to act as the stage for the theater so nobody even notices it when the enter the room. When I started it I threw all caution to the wind and just built it. I haven't been able to get my spectrum analyzer software to run on my slow laptop so actual specs aren't available yet but pipe organ music is very deep & rich maintaining a very lovely musical quality. Sound effects are powerful without the rumble you get from most store bought subs. Everyone that has been over for a movie has been blown away by the shear dynamics of my sub, and when I tell them it only cost about $300 (not including amp) they can't believe it. It is based on the Bose Accoustic Wave cannon except I used 2 18" Madison Executioner speakers in a face to face push pull arrangement mounted 3' into a 12'X16" Sonotube.
Here is a link to what may be my next DIY project.
Want to hear what 5Hz sounds like?
http://www.eminent-tech.com/RWbrochure.htm

 

[qi]

Pictures of your cannon?

 

[TwisterZ]

I will try to get pics and specs soon.

 

[jasonlky]

I once watched a wildlife program on the telly while I was a wee lad. It was a program about how elephants communicated between individuals and herds over the vast distances over the wide plains of Africa. This was probably filmed in the late 60s to early 70s. It was a theory then but proven now, that the elephants used infrasonics to communicate.

And in the program the researchers recorded the elephant "talk" and proceeded to replay the recording to a different herd of elephants. For speakers they used humongous drivers, while no mention of size was made, I would estimate to be at least 4-5 feet in diameter based on researchers standing next to them. Had 2 mounted on the back of a Land Rover. Watching these the driver cones put out 5Hz left a huge impression on me.

Here's a suggestion, maybe the National Geographic archives would have some information about the speakers used by researchers in their study of Elephant communications.

 

[zenmasterbrian]

I'm interested in what the possibilities are with drivers of that size.

I know there are otherways to get low bass.

But I'd like to see what has been accomplished with huge drivers, even going down as low as 5hz

 

[TwisterZ]

Here are a couple of pics of my room. I am still working on the trim, curtains, sheers & blackout shade. I am moving all the electronics to the back of the room this weekend.

 

[TwisterZ]

Pic 2

 

[TwisterZ]

Pic 3

 

[qi]

Here are a couple of pics of my room. I am still working on the trim, curtains, sheers & blackout shade. I am moving all the electronics to the back of the room this weekend.

Good for you, and welcome to the forum.

I also have cannons (two 20 footers under my bed) and love em....