I have heard both the single driver 0.4x and 0.53x with Faital Pro 16Ohms in parallel, and tbh, there is no comparison. The dual driver 0.53x is superior by far. If it's imaging and soundstage you're after, look no further. I have yet to hear another design that comes even close to Karlsonators as far as imaging is concerned - and that includes well known speaker brands. You need a good preamp and amp to get the best out of it, though.
.I read from your posts that FaitalPRO 3FE25 16ohm has some harsh highs that you had to tame with some kind of equalizer...how bad is it?
So in yet another weekend of lockdown, the final one thank goodness, I have had the opportunity to finish the 0.53x Karlsonators with W5-2143 drivers. Well, I will have by tomorrow, but once the glue dries I can at least fire them up tonight.
Because it is a bit trickier getting 1cm foamboard to align vs 0.5cm, I opted to use foaming glue for the final side panel. It isnt the best because it dissolves the foam but the paper bits stick nicely and you can be fairly sure that any gaps that were there before are no longer. It's just that it takes an awful lot longer.
My glue gun would have been way too slow for this panel. So Gorilla glue it was.
Seems to have worked nicely but you have to watch it for the first hour or it drips everywhere and foams out of all the joints. It also discolours white foamboard. But it does the job.
So just driver installation and the front to go now. Pics in a min. Got to take dogs for a walk.
Because it is a bit trickier getting 1cm foamboard to align vs 0.5cm, I opted to use foaming glue for the final side panel. It isnt the best because it dissolves the foam but the paper bits stick nicely and you can be fairly sure that any gaps that were there before are no longer. It's just that it takes an awful lot longer.
My glue gun would have been way too slow for this panel. So Gorilla glue it was.
Seems to have worked nicely but you have to watch it for the first hour or it drips everywhere and foams out of all the joints. It also discolours white foamboard. But it does the job.
So just driver installation and the front to go now. Pics in a min. Got to take dogs for a walk.
It's not all that bad. As X says, it's not harsh, just brighter than bass and mids. I first tried a baffle step, but now use software EQ to get the sound profile that sounds best to my ears.
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So here was progress a few hours ago. Still drying and wont be ready to play til tomorrow. Then it is just a matter of cutting out the Karlson slot and attaching that.
Not sure how much if any bracing or sound absorption material I need to apply for this panel though. It's pretty rigid being 1cm thick.
Not sure how much if any bracing or sound absorption material I need to apply for this panel though. It's pretty rigid being 1cm thick.
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Thanks a lot, that destroys one of my biggest worries, I really appreciate it. Even from that recording of Sting - Shape of my heart posted here I can tell that 3fe25-16 is far superior to tc9fd.
Been listening to the 0.53x for a few hours now and they are simply wonderful, even without the slots yet. Such a great balance. Love the bass from these, and the W5 is not exactly renowned for its bottom end. Imaging is great too. Im so glad I persevered with the build because for a while there I wasn't sure it was going to work out.
Many thanks for the steer X. Makes me wonder how a pair of Karlson subs would go with these!
Many thanks for the steer X. Makes me wonder how a pair of Karlson subs would go with these!
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Hi Luigi,
Congrats on your W5-2143 Karlsonator! Glad it worked out - I think the 2143 is highly under rated and under utilized on DIYA. It’s one of the best full range drivers out there. It has the rare combination of bass, treble, balance, and high sensitivity. Plus, it’s reasonably priced. Look forward to hearing your impressions once the K aperture is in place.
Congrats on your W5-2143 Karlsonator! Glad it worked out - I think the 2143 is highly under rated and under utilized on DIYA. It’s one of the best full range drivers out there. It has the rare combination of bass, treble, balance, and high sensitivity. Plus, it’s reasonably priced. Look forward to hearing your impressions once the K aperture is in place.
By the by, after all the cutting with a regular kitchen paring knife - a Swiss Army brand like for cutting fruit or veges - I happened across a Trojan scalpel-type knife for cutting the foamboard.
It is incomparably better. Like a surgeon vs a butcher's tool, poor analogy but the difference in cut edges is quite striking. Wish I had discovered this from the get-go.
I imagine this is like an Exacto which is what X suggested I use to begin with....
It is incomparably better. Like a surgeon vs a butcher's tool, poor analogy but the difference in cut edges is quite striking. Wish I had discovered this from the get-go.
I imagine this is like an Exacto which is what X suggested I use to begin with....
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So I simply laid the exact sized templates over the top of the front panels and started cutting with the Trojan scalpel.
Seemed to work out okay.
But Im not quite sure whether the 1cm panels need bracing or not. Probably will.
And what should I use on the outside of the speaker baffle, if anything? Felt, foam or nothing initially?
And finally for the outside screws - I don't need to drill any pilot hole, right? Better just to screw straight into the foamboard, yes?
Seemed to work out okay.
But Im not quite sure whether the 1cm panels need bracing or not. Probably will.
And what should I use on the outside of the speaker baffle, if anything? Felt, foam or nothing initially?
And finally for the outside screws - I don't need to drill any pilot hole, right? Better just to screw straight into the foamboard, yes?
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wow ! that's really good and the curves symmetric . I've had 3/4" plywood wings deflect at least 1/4" peak to peak on a klam and with an X15 copy. Transylvania Power Company had modulation problems with their little coupler so it and all the similar cabinets (KK, Westwood, Acoustic Control) used a 3/8" steel bolt / allthread run all the way from the back to the wings.
Here's Acoustic's 115BK on the left and an original Karlson X15 on the right. X15 are 28" tall by ~19.375" wide by about 14 inches deep. 115BK, 27" tall x 20.5" wide. Depth sans wings inset - about 13.5"
Here's Acoustic's 115BK on the left and an original Karlson X15 on the right. X15 are 28" tall by ~19.375" wide by about 14 inches deep. 115BK, 27" tall x 20.5" wide. Depth sans wings inset - about 13.5"
you could make one aperture like that of the Karlsonator 6's options for comparisons.
https://i.imgur.com/xp0P8go.png
or make one with a bit more open area in the blue area - might shift that a bit lower -
https://i.imgur.com/Clisa4Z.jpg
There's a lot of subjective room to play with and measurements may not show much change other than maybe a dB loss in the
low end with wider apertures. I had a small "K18" with aperture very tight in the driver's area. It sounded choked. Opening up its top gap made it sound very good. The Karlsonator having a higher aspect ratio may not need that at the top.
With little K's even a fast opening might not be out of the question with bland drivers. I ran this one with FE206EN and was pleased
It could have been more closed. In fact I ran 206 with a very tight aperture and voices in good opera recordings sounded good.
Don't do this on your Karlsonator - lol. - There is a curved reflector in this little cabinet. I'm not sure if that was a good idea - could that exacerbate dips at this aspect and size? Is the horizontal slot port part of the problem. It measured kinda rough - sounded very good with W8-1722. I did not like 1772 in the first Karlson 12 aka "Karlsonette" (as it was fall 1954 when K12 was introduced and K8 had not yet been release). Its odd the high vas Tangband preferred this little box overall.
Carl Neuser suggested this opening to compare to radial arc and to a very tight aperture - guess to get a feel for things
https://i.imgur.com/xp0P8go.png
or make one with a bit more open area in the blue area - might shift that a bit lower -
https://i.imgur.com/Clisa4Z.jpg
There's a lot of subjective room to play with and measurements may not show much change other than maybe a dB loss in the
low end with wider apertures. I had a small "K18" with aperture very tight in the driver's area. It sounded choked. Opening up its top gap made it sound very good. The Karlsonator having a higher aspect ratio may not need that at the top.
With little K's even a fast opening might not be out of the question with bland drivers. I ran this one with FE206EN and was pleased
It could have been more closed. In fact I ran 206 with a very tight aperture and voices in good opera recordings sounded good.
Don't do this on your Karlsonator - lol. - There is a curved reflector in this little cabinet. I'm not sure if that was a good idea - could that exacerbate dips at this aspect and size? Is the horizontal slot port part of the problem. It measured kinda rough - sounded very good with W8-1722. I did not like 1772 in the first Karlson 12 aka "Karlsonette" (as it was fall 1954 when K12 was introduced and K8 had not yet been release). Its odd the high vas Tangband preferred this little box overall.
Carl Neuser suggested this opening to compare to radial arc and to a very tight aperture - guess to get a feel for things
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Thanks for the suggestions X and Freddi.
I had one other thought - will remove the baffle and attack the back of the slot, smoothing off the cut edge to more like 45 degrees instead of 90 degrees and see what effect that has. It means no more cutting but it will perhaps open things up just enough. Then again it may not too.
These boxes do a ridiculous amount of bass; what I mean is the bass is very generous and it is sooo articulate. I haven't yet messed around with stuffing.
I wont initially though because the bass sounded so good without the front panel in place. The slot certainly does make imaging wider, if a bit more muffled.
Overall my boxes probably sounded better with the slot off than on, though there is even fuller bass with the slot in place, no question.
Anyway, there are clearly lots of tuning options available here. So I will take little steps.
The nice thing is I can try different variations of slots quite easily; just a matter of a bit of foamboard cutting!
I had one other thought - will remove the baffle and attack the back of the slot, smoothing off the cut edge to more like 45 degrees instead of 90 degrees and see what effect that has. It means no more cutting but it will perhaps open things up just enough. Then again it may not too.
These boxes do a ridiculous amount of bass; what I mean is the bass is very generous and it is sooo articulate. I haven't yet messed around with stuffing.
I wont initially though because the bass sounded so good without the front panel in place. The slot certainly does make imaging wider, if a bit more muffled.
Overall my boxes probably sounded better with the slot off than on, though there is even fuller bass with the slot in place, no question.
Anyway, there are clearly lots of tuning options available here. So I will take little steps.
The nice thing is I can try different variations of slots quite easily; just a matter of a bit of foamboard cutting!