Mini Karlsonator (0.53X) with Dual TC9FDs

[Mitch311]

$272 aud inc shipping for 4 faitals from parts express. Not the worst and probably worth adding to the above options.

 

[xrk971]

You might try an AliExpress dealer, this one seems to carry Faital Pro and shipping from Asia might be less than USA.

US $19.99 | THE FAITAL PRO 3FE25 IS A HIGH QUALITY FULL-RANGE 3" SPEAKER THAT HAS A WIDE FREQUENCY RANGE FROM 100HZ TO 20KHZ
THE FAITAL PRO 3FE25 IS A HIGH QUALITY FULL RANGE 3" SPEAKER THAT HAS A WIDE FREQUENCY RANGE FROM 100HZ TO 20KHZ|Amplifier| - AliExpress

I don’t see the 16ohm version but dual 8ohm as 4ohm nominal might be really good as well.

I actually think these drivers might be made in China despite what the label says. This sort of stuff happens all the time. I have a friend in Shenzen who showed me some samples (a few years ago) that he got from the local factory there. Same cardboard box, same foam liners, same driver - 3FE22-8. The sticker clearly says “Made in Italy”

 

[Mitch311]

Thanks for the response, AliExpress brings it down to $200 with shipping.
The faital’s would be your recommendation as well XRK?

 

[xrk971]

If you are ok with 4ohm combined load from dual 8ohm drivers in parallel, the TC9FD is also very good. I think it costs less and might have slightly deeper bass extension, but Faitals have higher upper end. Both are great. Dual 8ohm Faitals will get close to 96dB at 2.83v but 4ohms.

 

[Mitch311]

Guess I should buy some Faitals then. Seems to be the way to go.
I might pick up some Alpair 7MS and/or Tang Band W5-2143 to have a play with as well.
Let's see what Black friday brings.

Well well well, google shaping my results has struck again. Jumped on the desktop and searched for the Faitals and found a supplier in Aus! Guess that is happening then.

 

[Simonism]

Hi Mitch311 - Digikey have the TC9FD in stock and free shipping if you order 3 or more - at AUS$20 each plus GST.

I can't add the link but your search engine will find it easily.

Hard to pass by IMHO. They seem to work extremely well in a Manzanita open baffle that I made. Digikey ship very fast!

Who in Australia stocks the 3FE25 Faital Pros (other than Dick Smith / Kogan at $119 each)? I know that DJCity have the 3FE22s.


Simon

 

[Mitch311]

Simon,
You’re completely correct, I was looking at the 3FE22’s not the 25’s at DJCity. Got that completely wrong!
TC9FD’s for $20ea is a solid deal. I’ll look into it, thanks!
I must admit I’m a bit amused/befuddled that everyone recommends the cheaper drivers over the w5-2143 and Alpairs. But price isn’t everything I guess. If they sound better then they sound better.

 

[xrk971]

The W5-2143 is a superb full range. One of my favorites and works well in the XKi. I have not made a design for it as a Karlsonator yet but imagine it might work in an 0.53 scale. It’s got some nice bass and the top end is great.

Here is W5-2143 in XKi:

 

[Mitch311]

Thanks XRK.
I’ve looked at the XKI and I don’t really understand the difference between it and the Karlsonator? The Karlsonator looks more like a folded transmission line, the XKI more like a normal ported box? Do you prefer one over the other?

 

[xrk971]

The XKi is more compact and is closer to a ported box with a K aperture. I think the sound of a TL sounds more refined. The XKi is more bass and punch.

 

[Mitch311]

Hey XRK,

If you've got time, could you model the 3FE22 as dual config?
FaitalPRO | LF Loudspeakers | 3FE22 (8Ω)

How do they look in comparison to the dual 3FE25?

If you are feeling particularly kind, it'd be interesting to the see the MA 7MS modelled as well.
Alpair 7 MS | Markaudio

Also you've actually pumped out plans for the w5-2143 in the karlsonator before:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/ful...onator-0-53x-dual-tc9fds-354.html#post6013847

Gonna grab some TC9's to get started. Very interested to see how these turn out.

Thanks for your generosity of time and knowledge.

 

[xrk971]

Sorry but somehow my Akabak virtual machine got corrupted - I suspect victim of an antivirus deep cleaning I recently did. So I am not going to be able to do any simulations anytime soon.

 

[Mitch311]

Ah sucks to hear. Extra work for no good reason always sucks. Hope it turns out to be an easy fix for you

 

[Andrewbee]

Someone asked. I don't know where this came from but probably here on diyaudio.

 

[xrk971]

Thanks! Glad you found it. Appears to be a 0.65x wide scale and taller aspect ratio. I must have simulated this at some point and forgot.

 

[Andrewbee]

Thanks! Glad you found it.

Pure luck. I was perusing data prior to backing up before leaving OS X, back to Linux when I came across it over the weekend.

 

[RevN]

Sorry but somehow my Akabak virtual machine got corrupted - I suspect victim of an antivirus deep cleaning I recently did. So I am not going to be able to do any simulations anytime soon.

Sorry to hear that!

Since the sim is down, do you have any general recommendations or principles that could help with scaling existing plans? For example, scaling a 4 driver parallel 3fe22-16 / 3fe25-16 from an existing 2 driver plan. Thanks!

 

[xrk971]

In general, if you use drivers with similar moderate high Qts like 0.7 to 0.9 range the scale will be similar to TC9FD and 3FE25. If using lower Qts like 3FE22, the volume needs to be reduced. It’s hard to say what the scaling is because it is a tradeoff between volume and length which is related to Fs and Vas.

I think the easiest thing to do is to search this thread for a driver as close to the one you need in terms of Qts, Fs, Vas.

Then interpolate between two drivers that cover the driver of interest. I must have modeled 100 different drivers here. If someone ever pulls them all together in a spreadsheet that would be a useful design guide to allow eyeball interpolation.

 

[zallou3]

Hey XRK!
Is the pa130 preferred to the dual tc9 or 3fe25s if we're building a x.53 karlsonator?
And between the xki and the karlsonator, is one superior to the other?
and also, would the dayton audio dma 90-8 work well here?

 

[xrk971]

For 0.53x scale, my favorite is PA130-8, but if you want more highs, the dual 3FE25-16 is excellent. The dual TC9FD will have a bit more bass than the 3FE25.

I think the Karlsonator sounds more refined. The XKi sounds more punchy and is more of a compact cabinet.

I think the DMA 90-8 can work well. It has a nice moderate Qts and I would suspect would work well in a single 0.40x or dual in 0.53x for 4ohm nominal at 91dB at 2.83v.