As always, it's a matter of taste. Recently I heard a system with Wilson Audio Alexxx V, Spectral DMA400 monos, Spectral pre, M.I.T. cables... in an acoustically optimized room... it's a dream, period. They don't need to play loud, they are just so relaxed and soundig beautifully. As I wrote - a matter of taste.
And now back to the topic
And now back to the topic
to me is quite opposite bad system that cannot work without dirac....we haved enjoy a lot in the past 100year without
Hi again,
back with some progress.
After I showed the new version with in-phase xo here in the forum, @Stanislav contacted me and suggested the use of a serial xo. Since I have absolutely no experience with this, Stan thankfully also designed an xo and made the file available to me. I only changed it very little in sim and first soldered it together q&d.
I listened to it quickly - and I really liked what I heard. I can only echo Stan's words: great transparency and clarity. I initially had concerns about the bass, because the inductor seemed too small, but what I hear is very, very good. At first I thought it got less bass all the way down, but then I realized that the new xo only eliminates the boost at around 30-40Hz that I had with the old xo. The bass is dry, but great defined and detailed. Because of the listening experience I built the xo on a today I will also build my parallel xo on a board and then test both extensively.
And the fun continues
Here the serial xo - many thanks again for the eye-opener
back with some progress.
After I showed the new version with in-phase xo here in the forum, @Stanislav contacted me and suggested the use of a serial xo. Since I have absolutely no experience with this, Stan thankfully also designed an xo and made the file available to me. I only changed it very little in sim and first soldered it together q&d.
I listened to it quickly - and I really liked what I heard. I can only echo Stan's words: great transparency and clarity. I initially had concerns about the bass, because the inductor seemed too small, but what I hear is very, very good. At first I thought it got less bass all the way down, but then I realized that the new xo only eliminates the boost at around 30-40Hz that I had with the old xo. The bass is dry, but great defined and detailed. Because of the listening experience I built the xo on a today
I will also build my parallel xo on a board and then test both extensively. And the fun continues
Here the serial xo - many thanks again for the eye-opener
If someone told me on a Diy audio forum, I would have said the same thing. Unless you have actually heard it... To put it into context, I was at an audio show going from room to room. And yes there was no shortage of good system, so I don't have a problem of getting a comparison sound. This system was the one that caught my attention. I sat down and listen to it. And after a while it immediately grew on me. NAD 50 Anniversary amp with PSB 50 Anniversary speakers. It didn't have the best bass, it doesn't have the best trebles. Didn't have the most detailed mids either. But it was the most natural speaker I have ever heard. Everything sounded like it's there and it's real. It sounded like a real piano, real cello etc.
Then he turned off the DIRAC sound processor and suddenly the bass was flabby, and it sounded like just another ordinary hifi system. No different from what you get at the rest of the hifi show.
I once saw this video on YouTube by a reviewer. If you really like cello and you want to blow a few hundred thousand on a hifi set that gives you the best cello.... Forget it, go hire a professional cellist and play in your house...
Well, that's my story
Oon
BTW.... Maybe I should highlight one thing, in case it is not clear..... DIRAC is actually a room correction software, not sound enhancing software of sorts.
I came upon this thread. I think my impression of the sound mirrors what the listening impression of the posts there mention...
Oon
I came upon this thread. I think my impression of the sound mirrors what the listening impression of the posts there mention...
Oon
Well, as @lasercut wrote in another thread, distortion at somewhat higher levels can be an issue with the FR, and in fact it is one I think.
I listen at about 80-82 dB, maybe little louder, and there is some distortion in the mids/lower highs. I will try the Alpair 12P again.
And I'm thinking about the SEAS Prestige FA22RCZ or the Dayton Audio PS220-8. Any thoughts?
I listen at about 80-82 dB, maybe little louder, and there is some distortion in the mids/lower highs. I will try the Alpair 12P again.
And I'm thinking about the SEAS Prestige FA22RCZ or the Dayton Audio PS220-8. Any thoughts?
I have both. Both require significant correction as they have a rising response till about 10kHz and drop off. They sound shout. Uncorrected the SB sounds more pleasant. The Dayton audio. Might have Abit more detail.
Overall don't bother. They have too similar a sound character and if not corrected, actually worse.
Should go for something of a completely sonic signature. Maybe Faitalpro 3Fe22....
Oon
Yeah, thanks, that's what I thought after looking at the diagrams
Further candidate is the Sonido 8" FR. Will see.
Today I'm trying different wings and I think this one works best.
But the more important conclusion is that the FR doesn't like wings.
The XO tests are funny. The serial XO has a very clear and transparent sound, the parallel XO has however more liveliness and more "shine" in the treble. Draw I think it's a matter of taste, both are great, period.
Further candidate is the Sonido 8" FR. Will see.
Today I'm trying different wings and I think this one works best.
But the more important conclusion is that the FR doesn't like wings.
The XO tests are funny. The serial XO has a very clear and transparent sound, the parallel XO has however more liveliness and more "shine" in the treble. Draw
I think it's a matter of taste, both are great, period.Hi Istvan,
Looks great.
Something that I would do differently is to flush mount the FR and bring the Alpha15 forward to reduce timing errors. Sort of better time alignment. If you vary that offset in XSim you'll see the effect it has on the overall response which in some cases could be dramatic.
Also will position the two drivers closer so their centers are roughly at 1/4 wavelength of the XO frequency.
I know you mentioned earlier that you like the sound better when spacing is greater but maybe worth trying.
Stan
Looks great.
Something that I would do differently is to flush mount the FR and bring the Alpha15 forward to reduce timing errors. Sort of better time alignment. If you vary that offset in XSim you'll see the effect it has on the overall response which in some cases could be dramatic.
Also will position the two drivers closer so their centers are roughly at 1/4 wavelength of the XO frequency.
I know you mentioned earlier that you like the sound better when spacing is greater but maybe worth trying.
Stan
Hi Stan,
many thanks!
I can mount the woofer easily to the front (the sim gives about 1-2 dB plus in the midrange, interesting); flush mount of the FR is tricky, because I would have to use the router and I don´t like it... but I will do it step by step.
XO frequency... I "think" the frequency is 150 Hz (but maybe I´m completely wrong), and it would mean 2,288 m wavelength, a quarter wavelength would be 57 cm between the drivers - I have 56 cm.
But I´n not sure regarding the frequency... here´s the sim, what do you think?
many thanks!
I can mount the woofer easily to the front (the sim gives about 1-2 dB plus in the midrange, interesting); flush mount of the FR is tricky, because I would have to use the router and I don´t like it... but I will do it step by step.
XO frequency... I "think" the frequency is 150 Hz (but maybe I´m completely wrong), and it would mean 2,288 m wavelength, a quarter wavelength would be 57 cm between the drivers - I have 56 cm.
But I´n not sure regarding the frequency... here´s the sim, what do you think?
Hi Istvan,
Yes, at 150 Hz that distance is indeed fine, I wouldn't worry about it.
The sim looks good to me with the exception of that peak at 40Hz.
That is I think caused by the Alpha's high Qts and also is the Fs for the FR which is not attenuated enough.
Sim is one thing though, how it sounds in your room is another thing. Might be just fine, you'll be the judge.
Give it some listening time and then decide if it needs changes.
One final thought, keep an eye on the impedance, you don't want it to go very low. Best to measure it with LIMP.
P.S. There is a small Android app called Spectroid that can show you in real time the freq. response of your speaker.
Just play a 20Hz - 20kHz sweep, I use Alan Parsons Sound Check, track 56, to have an idea of your speakers response in your room. Very easy and very informative.
Stan
Yes, at 150 Hz that distance is indeed fine, I wouldn't worry about it.
The sim looks good to me with the exception of that peak at 40Hz.
That is I think caused by the Alpha's high Qts and also is the Fs for the FR which is not attenuated enough.
Sim is one thing though, how it sounds in your room is another thing. Might be just fine, you'll be the judge.
Give it some listening time and then decide if it needs changes.
One final thought, keep an eye on the impedance, you don't want it to go very low. Best to measure it with LIMP.
P.S. There is a small Android app called Spectroid that can show you in real time the freq. response of your speaker.
Just play a 20Hz - 20kHz sweep, I use Alan Parsons Sound Check, track 56, to have an idea of your speakers response in your room. Very easy and very informative.
Stan
Hi Stan,
many thanks again.
I listen to it now for some hours and it sounds really good. The FR however needs a "brake", I use [3.9 mH II 9 ohms] in order to bring it to civilized behaviour
Here is my OmniMic measurement of the parallel XO, there is no peak at 40 Hz, I think the room eliminates it - just to make a peak at 200 Hz
Otherwise, I like it, the frequency response it slightly tilted to he right. With mounting the woofer to the outside the midrange will be slightly louder, so the response will be even flatter.
The impulse response is... well, could be better, but the room needs to be treated, so it will be better.
many thanks again.
I listen to it now for some hours and it sounds really good. The FR however needs a "brake", I use [3.9 mH II 9 ohms] in order to bring it to civilized behaviour
Here is my OmniMic measurement of the parallel XO, there is no peak at 40 Hz, I think the room eliminates it - just to make a peak at 200 Hz
Otherwise, I like it, the frequency response it slightly tilted to he right. With mounting the woofer to the outside the midrange will be slightly louder, so the response will be even flatter.
The impulse response is... well, could be better, but the room needs to be treated, so it will be better.
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That looks very good Istvan.
The 200Hz peak could be some overlap between the drivers, play with xo values to see if it will drop down a bit, but keep an eye on the impedance, that will tell you a lot of stuff.
If you only have a 9 ohm resistor to tame the FR try to create an Lpad with a parallel resistor across the FR and adjust the Rs accordingly to get the best balance.
I think you are getting closer and closer to the final.
The 200Hz peak could be some overlap between the drivers, play with xo values to see if it will drop down a bit, but keep an eye on the impedance, that will tell you a lot of stuff.
If you only have a 9 ohm resistor to tame the FR try to create an Lpad with a parallel resistor across the FR and adjust the Rs accordingly to get the best balance.
I think you are getting closer and closer to the final.
Thanks Stan
Here´s the XO:
For test purposes I use 3 serial resistors, and now R4 (3 ohms) is shorted, with the full 12 ohms there was no shine in the mids and treble. I could short R2 instead of R4 and go with 7.7 ohms, but I think it´s the absolute minimum, and I fear the mids/treble will be harsh. But it´s easy to try.
Maybe I will play with R3 too, I can imagine to decrease it to 5.1 ohms in order to make the whole mid/treble louder (about 1.5 dB), this causes no significant change in the impedance, and adjust the R in the Lpad again.
Fun is in the air
Edit: and the same goes for the serial XO
Here´s the XO:
For test purposes I use 3 serial resistors, and now R4 (3 ohms) is shorted, with the full 12 ohms there was no shine in the mids and treble. I could short R2 instead of R4 and go with 7.7 ohms, but I think it´s the absolute minimum, and I fear the mids/treble will be harsh. But it´s easy to try.
Maybe I will play with R3 too, I can imagine to decrease it to 5.1 ohms in order to make the whole mid/treble louder (about 1.5 dB), this causes no significant change in the impedance, and adjust the R in the Lpad again.
Fun is in the air
Edit: and the same goes for the serial XO
Hi Martin,
many thanks for you interest.
Yes, I'm planning to build the "final" version of the XOs, but still playing with the position of the FR, placed in cardboard baffles.
The biggest issue is the heat wave, so not much progress. I think I will finish at the end of August, after my holyday journey in Norway (yes, because it's cold there).
many thanks for you interest.
Yes, I'm planning to build the "final" version of the XOs, but still playing with the position of the FR, placed in cardboard baffles.
The biggest issue is the heat wave, so not much progress. I think I will finish at the end of August, after my holyday journey in Norway (yes, because it's cold there
).