This is very true. Also as has been seen from the measurements made so far also the USB-I2S interface has an impact as RTZ dac is very sensitive to far-out phase noise. So to get comparable results also the USB-I2S interface should be the same (assuming USB is used).
I'd say you'd probably be pretty lucky to nail the absolute best objective performance first go without some kind of iterative approach using such a measurement system.
OTOH, if you are purely designing iteratively based on listening, that's fine - but be prepared to be crucified by ASR (and his entourage) when a DAC at that price point doesn't come up to the best Topping etc standards.
Just thinking outside the box so to speak...
TCD
You are missing the point of these "diy" measurements. I use these measurements mainly for assessing implementation quality, troubleshooting and comparing devices I have. I have never claimed that these are comparable to AP measurements.
Using Cosmos APU (or other well implemented notch+LNA) it it possible to get very consistent results even with ADCs that measure vastly differently on their own.
Here my ES9038Q2M in PCM mode measured with ES9822PRO or AK5394 through Cosmos APU.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...perform-apx555b-for-30000.386001/post-7363403
Results are so similar that I have no reason to believe AP would get far more accurate results.
Here my ES9038Q2M in PCM mode measured with ES9822PRO or AK5394 through Cosmos APU.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...perform-apx555b-for-30000.386001/post-7363403
Results are so similar that I have no reason to believe AP would get far more accurate results.
Does that mean we need to consider the far-out phase noise of Clocks also? I thought only the close-in noise matters most as we were made to believe
This is a diy forum.
I have the greatest respect for those who use their best knowledge and their equipment within their badget for to do testing and show them to us.
George
As a counterpoint, and for me personally, I don't care too much if I have to put up with slight noise or slight distortion if what's coming out the dac sounds like real music. If its smeared around or otherwise made unmusical by things that aren't being measured, then that's a problem. Moreover, ESS made plain several years ago they know very well PSS measurements don't show everything that's audible. Not only that, there the example audio files that Marcel listened to a Puifi that prove beyond any doubt that spectral measurements can fool you into thinking you know more than you really do. Listen with your ears not you eyes. That includes not putting too much weight on looking at PSS spectra.
Why speculate? If you don't measure you cannot know if they are being measured.
Your writing may take on more credibility if you leave out the unnecessary adjectives.
And how one can raise ones hearing to rule over all others is really problematic. To the level that I since long ignore Mk4s listening impressions and "publications". They are simply not to be taken serious - trust your own ears and ignore the most confident and outspoken voices - especial if their references are mostly not real recorded instruments. I think even sending the DAC that way was a mistake. Nothing good will come out of it I'm afraid.
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It isn't that I couldn't. For one thing, at least a few people think and believe at lot like I do. PMs come my way sometimes agreeing with what I say, but people each have their own reasons for wanting to speak up or not. I guess they are mostly satisfied that I am representing a certain point of view well enough, and that I'm willing to take the heat that can come along with it.
A lot of posts get made on various topics and for various reasons. The recent 'counterpoint' post was intended to try to bring some balance, maybe some yin and yang, to discussion about finding a way along the path to better audio. Measurements are necessary, and everybody sees you do some impressive work. Yet there has to be a place, or a way, for admitting we are in the end trying to create a subjective illusion for entertainment purposes.
So, I want to remind people to keep things in perspective is all. We shouldn't have a problem admitting we don't know how to measure well enough to predict sound quality very accurately. Its not an insult to say so, and its not something for anyone to feel embarrassed or hurt about about. It just what it is. Its the condition we find ourselves in.