I mostly listen to classical music and there is a variety of different sounding recordings including different soundstages. Some close miked recordings of solo instruments try to achieve more spatious sound by having half the instrument panned slightly to the left and other half to the right which leads to very unnatural soundstage with headphones. As if the listener was playing the instrument rather than sitting in the audience.
Yes, that's what we are doing. The Sound Lab ESL panels create a pretty good sense of space. Its not hard to tell if starting to sound more like a real concert hall or less like one for a particular recording. Will let you know when I have something to report.
Mark, you can carry on with further work as you seem fit with what you already have. It is all very interesting
What I was thinking in terms of further support is like assisting you rent an AP machine, etc for measurements? In that way all in the comforts of your home and not venture out to risky places like ASR 🤣
Then from my side, any improved interface boards…if that helps
No need for an AP probably. Already access to this if I need it: http://www.prismsound.com/test_measure/test_home.php
Thing is I don't need it at this point. Its not so much about HD/IMD and or noise floor. Its about soundstage and other things those instruments can't measure. They're not designed for that. Why? One big reason is their customers aren't demanding it. Nobody wants to pay more for it. Same for some other things that aren't typically measured. (I am privy to some backchannel info on this subject, is all I can say.)
Thing is I don't need it at this point. Its not so much about HD/IMD and or noise floor. Its about soundstage and other things those instruments can't measure. They're not designed for that. Why? One big reason is their customers aren't demanding it. Nobody wants to pay more for it. Same for some other things that aren't typically measured. (I am privy to some backchannel info on this subject, is all I can say.)
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I find most discussions about subjectivity a real slippery slope. When a guitar or a piano is tuned, it is likewise a slippery slope when the guy tuning the instrument is telling the musician using the instrument, that his opinion of the result is subjective (as in: not important), because he used measurements during the tuning process.
There needs to be room for some subjectivity.
There needs to be room for some subjectivity.
Interesting video on the subject of tuning/voicing an instrument: https://kawaipianostlouis.com/whats...-explained-adjusting-the-sound-of-your-piano/
Calibrated, even-tempered tuning may not always be best. You happen to know something more about the subject?
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Off topic, but: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_intonation
Here's an example (which will test your system too)
.https://www.youtube.com/live/9d4-URyWEJQ?feature=share
Nobody has denied the right to subjectivity. But it becomes problematic when it is portrayed as objective applying to anybody. Or when subjective preferences are touted as "the truth".
@nautibuoy
You are using the I2S over USB board with galvanic isolation, right ?
Are you also using their Oscillator board with external MCK ?
If you could make your I2S over USB and RTZ Firdac plus filter available for a short time, I could repeat all measurements within a week.
It would be interesting in that case to also measure the effect of adding the external MCK.
Hans
You are using the I2S over USB board with galvanic isolation, right ?
Are you also using their Oscillator board with external MCK ?
If you could make your I2S over USB and RTZ Firdac plus filter available for a short time, I could repeat all measurements within a week.
It would be interesting in that case to also measure the effect of adding the external MCK.
Hans
@Hans Polak: If you like you are welcome to borrow my 22 MHz Andrea oscillator and a JLSounds board (I have a spare one) if it is for e.g. two weeks ... ?
One thing to note though is that since it is half the frequency of the JLSounds' internal oscillator there may be two rising edges for the JLSounds' board to trigger on. Thus depending on output DSD rate (higher rates) a reclocking circuitry may consistently trigger on the falling edges of the DSD BCLK signal - and thus no signal ... You may already have thought of this but just in case you didn't FYI.
Cheers, Jesper
P.S.: FYI the oscillator is not yet in a cage - just a bare PCB with an SMA connector and a two pin DIL for input voltage.
PPS.: You also need a frequency doubler so that what enters into the JLSounds board is 45 MHz. Otherwise the JLSounds needs a firmware change (which means 384 kHz & DSD256 maximum).
One thing to note though is that since it is half the frequency of the JLSounds' internal oscillator there may be two rising edges for the JLSounds' board to trigger on. Thus depending on output DSD rate (higher rates) a reclocking circuitry may consistently trigger on the falling edges of the DSD BCLK signal - and thus no signal
... You may already have thought of this but just in case you didn't FYI.Cheers, Jesper
P.S.: FYI the oscillator is not yet in a cage - just a bare PCB with an SMA connector and a two pin DIL for input voltage.
PPS.: You also need a frequency doubler so that what enters into the JLSounds board is 45 MHz. Otherwise the JLSounds needs a firmware change (which means 384 kHz & DSD256 maximum).
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Hi Hans, I have successfully used a JLSounds I2SoverUSB (only with the onboard clocks) when testing the RTZ DAC, both Marcel's prototype and my first build, however, I am currently without an RTZ DAC as I have sold one to a UK-based friend and my second was sent to Acko. I have plans to assemble another two but I'm currently waiting for my friends reflow oven to be available for me to borrow, so likely a couple of weeks away.
Hi Jesper,
That’s a generous offer. Could I change your external clock easily for the JLsounds oscillator board ?
I’m willing to acquire that part on my account
My Idea is to compose something of a standard basic set of high quality.
Since I only have a power supply, I also need to have the RTZ Firdac and Filter board available.
Hans
That’s a generous offer. Could I change your external clock easily for the JLsounds oscillator board ?
I’m willing to acquire that part on my account
My Idea is to compose something of a standard basic set of high quality.
Since I only have a power supply, I also need to have the RTZ Firdac and Filter board available.
Hans
Hi Hans.
I am a bit unsure as to what you mean with this sentence: "Could I change your external clock easily for the JLsounds oscillator board ?" ... Which clock would you change? Andrea's oscillators (Driscoll type) works with a fixed crystal which can be replaced for another frequency crystal - and then typically changing a few components on the board. But I reckon this is not what you mean?
Cheers, Jesper
I am a bit unsure as to what you mean with this sentence: "Could I change your external clock easily for the JLsounds oscillator board ?" ... Which clock would you change? Andrea's oscillators (Driscoll type) works with a fixed crystal which can be replaced for another frequency crystal - and then typically changing a few components on the board. But I reckon this is not what you mean?
Cheers, Jesper
You mentioned to be using Andrea’s Driscoll oscillator.
Was this an external oscillator or did it replace the on board JLsounds oscillator ?
I assumed it to be an external oscillator like Joseph did.
Hans
Andrea's oscillators look like this: https://www.thewellaudio.com/twtmc-drixo/
It is typically connected to a "reclocking board" where the inversion from the DRIXO's sine waves to square waves are made as well as distributing the - now - square wave to the JLSounds board (including 2x clock doubling in my case) and to the reclocking FF. The reclocking FF also receives the outgoing BCLK from the JLSounds board. This JLSounds BCLK is what is reclocked.
So there is a bit more to it - unless the JLSounds board gets a different firmware meant for an incoming 22 MHz clock. In this case only the inverter -> reclock FF + input to JLSounds board is needed. I hope this comes across in an understandable way?
Jesper
It is typically connected to a "reclocking board" where the inversion from the DRIXO's sine waves to square waves are made as well as distributing the - now - square wave to the JLSounds board (including 2x clock doubling in my case) and to the reclocking FF. The reclocking FF also receives the outgoing BCLK from the JLSounds board. This JLSounds BCLK is what is reclocked.
So there is a bit more to it - unless the JLSounds board gets a different firmware meant for an incoming 22 MHz clock. In this case only the inverter -> reclock FF + input to JLSounds board is needed. I hope this comes across in an understandable way?
Jesper
No, but since Andrea's clock has lower frequency (22M) you would need to re-flash the I2SoverUSB board. It would be easier to start with the on-board clocks. Then your results would be quite comparable to mine. After that you could test with Andrea's clock to see if the results are any better.