Hi
Yes it may be, but most of "programming" circuits are insufficient and unclear, for those users without any experience in that field?
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Usually code is given, but these "little" vital things how to implement, how to connect physically, are missing... And in most cases some "other" hardware board needed?
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Amanero, I2SoverUSB or York are black boxes. You can use STM32H7 board as a black box if you lack programming experience as it can be configured via HID (just like York). But unlike the other alternatives you have on option to alter the logic yourself.
Can you give an example of these "most cases"? I haven't needed any other hardware board with any of the DACs or ADCs I have (TDA154x, AD1862, PCM1702, PCM179x, RTZ, ESS, AKM).
And sold ready to run. I can get an XMOS XU208 based Amanero footprint module with decent clocks on Alibaba for 30 Bux delivered.
You cannot do that, because unlike an AliExpress Board board, you cannot get an assembled, tested and firmware pre-flashed.
And the readymade options I noticed so far outside AliExpress are more like 100Bux.
To a lot of peeps having to get the board fabbed somewhere, then to bring it up, flash firmware and make it all work is a big hurdle, at least mentally.
So they prefer something ready to run.
Simple.
Thor
The issue is, most are difficult to slave. Xing u30 is hard to slave, it takes significant modifications to it, which for the average diyer, is mission impossible. Not sure if chinese amaneros are able to, and original amanero needs to be flashed with slave firmware. Jlsounds is easy.
This forum is DIYaudio, not buy-something-from-Aliexpress-or-Taobao-audio. If building the board is beyond your skills or interest I couldn't care less.
Hmmm.
So anyone who buys something premade say transformers, power transformers, casework from anywhere and uses it to assemble their own device is not "DIY"?
Interesting.
It is not beyond my skills, I'd likely have to redesign it first. Then, when I get your source code, I will probably end up rewriting it.
And I'm not interested in doing that, plus it serves nobody.
Thor
No need. You can pull off the original oscillators and feed your own clock. This is trivial.
They vary a lot. I use "Amanero" as a mechanical and pinout specification only.
Right now I am waiting for an "Amanero" (< 20 USD) which is actually a QCC5125 BT module with LDAC & aptX HD plus USB in. It has nothing in common with Amanero, except it will into the space where an Amanero goes and work.
And I'm waiting for a CS8412 compatible module with CS8416 (I already have WM8804).
If we are realistic, CS8416 in PDUR=0 pretty much kills all source jitter. I tested it.
The local MCK is a noisy RC oscillator at 256 x FS. But it still has better than -70dBc peak and -80dB RMS phase noise. Divide to 32 x FS (/8) and we drop phase noise by 18dB. So -88dBc peak and -98dBc RMS.
It will probably be ok for 16 bit audio.
A lot of the clock stuff is overblown. Just like other distortion jitter audibility and annoyance factor depends a lot on Spectrum and if it is harmonic, non-harmonic correlated or just white noise.
Thor
What I find very amusing is that when somebody publishes a schematic (with source code) that other members have asked for you have to downplay that effort. I have to assume simply because it solves the problem you are struggling with.
The thread is entitled:
"Simultaneous output Frontend for TDA1541 (and or Universal Multibit DAC) using discrete logic"
Which part of this is unclear? Maybe you didn't bother reading this?
I specified discrete logic, you insist on pushing a MCU.
I saw no source code, must have missed it.
But it still lacks IIS or SPDIF inputs.
It doesn't solve my problem.
And I'm not struggling, I find doing this more interesting than writing some code, or using yours.
Thor
That is what I was want to say, people have to google what is STM32H7, then what is HID and what is York...
They dont want to do this they want to exchange OP amps and Capacitors in the analog section 🙂
I was thinking, not about hardware for DAC or other audio section, but for programming and digital part section. Almost alwats we need some intermediate software-hardware little module...
If you mean programming the STM32H7, then yes, a ST-Link device is needed for the initial programming of empty MCU. After that programming can be done via USB (DFU interface). Cheap ST-Link devices can be bought from e.g. Aliexpress for about 2.5USD although genuine STM32 Nucleo development boards are not that expensive either (<15USD).
Of course the number of potential users of USB-I2S board with STM32H7 is limited. But it seems some are interested in it so no harm done by publishing the design.
A while back you said that not sharing a design is just intellectual show off. Now I've learned that sharing a design is ego-boosting 🤣
It is not what I said in those 2 sentences.
But yes it seems more an intellectual showoff than anything practical to readers or builders that want stuff they can copy/build. The DAC Meisters seem to know all there is to know in incredible depth (and woo to those that have SMSL stuff 🙂) but there either is no readable manual and/or buildable copy anywhere it seems despite the emphasis on DIY. Apparently one must go into great lengths to have anything substantial that also is practically never a finished project. Asking for such is met with skepticism.
See it as constructive criticism. What is it to the average reader that just wants to build a good device (please have a look at the Pass section!)?
But yes it seems more an intellectual showoff than anything practical to readers or builders that want stuff they can copy/build. The DAC Meisters seem to know all there is to know in incredible depth (and woo to those that have SMSL stuff 🙂) but there either is no readable manual and/or buildable copy anywhere it seems despite the emphasis on DIY. Apparently one must go into great lengths to have anything substantial that also is practically never a finished project. Asking for such is met with skepticism.
See it as constructive criticism. What is it to the average reader that just wants to build a good device (please have a look at the Pass section!)?
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As I said something based on STM32H7 MCU is not for everyone, nor was it intended to be. But still there are members who find it useful so why not publish it? Same applies to any DAC design with modern DS chips. The chip packages alone prohibit most members from DIYing those. But there are members who are able to put those together.
I frankly don't get your constructive criticism. Should we limit this site to only through-hole designs or stuff to modify from Aliexpress or Taobao?
I frankly don't get your constructive criticism. Should we limit this site to only through-hole designs or stuff to modify from Aliexpress or Taobao?
Where in my post did you read "through-hole designs or stuff to modify from Aliexpress or Taobao?"?
I think you know exactly what I mean. Pass stuff is not my cup of tea at all but the Pass section delivers substantial stuff that is actually built DIY big time and plays music in many homes with exemplary collaboration by various paradise birds (shout out to friend Zen Mod!) that share their valuable time with humor and dedication:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/forums/digital-line-level.129/
But sorry Thorsten is not going to like off topic stuff in this new vintage DAC project.
I think you know exactly what I mean. Pass stuff is not my cup of tea at all but the Pass section delivers substantial stuff that is actually built DIY big time and plays music in many homes with exemplary collaboration by various paradise birds (shout out to friend Zen Mod!) that share their valuable time with humor and dedication:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/forums/digital-line-level.129/
But sorry Thorsten is not going to like off topic stuff in this new vintage DAC project.
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Sorry, no I don't. If you take a look at any of the STM32 MCU threads here you'll find collaboration between members but naturally on a smaller scale as those devices have a much smaller audience.
Yes that is what i want to say. Does not matter what is the cost...
Now we, that does not know what it is, have to explore:
1. STM32H7
2. ST-Link device
3. DFU interface USB
4. HID
5. York
You are familiar with all these technical devises and various software that running them, and it is easy for You. But for most of users it is too complicated to know and understand without extensive search, learning process and significant time... So Your design solution is very very good but little complicated to achieve.
I looked closer. The BOM is substantial. Many of the IC's are not solderable for a hobbyist without a reflow setup, hot air rework setup will not be applicable.
Some of the IC's are available on JLCPCB.com, but not all.
You will need an ARM Style programmer for SWD and the necessary software setup as needed to load source, compile and flash onto the device.
So by the time someone has bought all IC's, a proper reflow oven, a programmer, got a PCB made together with paste mask and assembled the first board they will be a significant amount of cash down the line. The next thing that will likely happen that a small mistake was made and they find it doesn't work and what now?
I am pretty agnostic actually.
If I felt that using a BGA FPGA or MCU as core and then interfacing it to TDA1541 would be a good choice for the average DIY'er here on DIYA, because everyone has the necessary tooling available and crunches assembler code for breakfast, I would do something like this:
XU216, FPGA, Wifi Module with SD Card playback, galvanic isolation using Maxim isolators for uncritical signals (huge jitter levels) and SI for the critical signals, PCM2DSD conversion, DSD2PCM, multiple filters and so on.
But somehow I feel this kind of project is not what is needed or beneficial.
Thor
On the subject of what diy'ers are willing and or able to solder, many still haven't made the transition to SMD at all. Those folks would often prefer to buy finished boards to plug together. For some of the projects in the digital forums, it makes those projects inaccessible to people who would otherwise be interested.
Many of those same people don't have access to a 100MHz or better oscilloscope either. Many have no access to any scope at all.
I guess the point is, there is a question as to where some line should or might be drawn regarding complexity of offered projects.
Many of those same people don't have access to a 100MHz or better oscilloscope either. Many have no access to any scope at all.
I guess the point is, there is a question as to where some line should or might be drawn regarding complexity of offered projects.