Ok soo, I have just received my board and I must say that it sounds awesome on my OB satelites! I am seriously in love with this thing 
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Its currently being powered with two 300watt computer psu's wired in series for ~24 volts.
One question, is it normal for the heatsink to get warm at idle?
.Its currently being powered with two 300watt computer psu's wired in series for ~24 volts.
One question, is it normal for the heatsink to get warm at idle?
I'm interested in this application too.
1) How much DC offset drift would one get at 12V-14V supply rail? A few tens of mV or worse?
2) At a lower supply rail, does the quoted power or sound quality drop or does it just use more current?
3) My main concern is that in a vehicle is too harsh an environment for the heatsinking arrangement on the power amp card, vibration could cause a disconnect, especially if they have PCB warping and shims to correct it.
Thanks
Bump. Anyone?I'm interested in this application too.
1) How much DC offset drift would one get at 12V-14V supply rail? A few tens of mV or worse?
2) At a lower supply rail, does the quoted power or sound quality drop or does it just use more current?
3) My main concern is that in a vehicle is too harsh an environment for the heatsinking arrangement on the power amp card, vibration could cause a disconnect, especially if they have PCB warping and shims to correct it.
Thanks
joylove:
1. no idea
2. if you double the DC power input then you get 4x the power output. so definitely worth running these at 24v or higher if poss. people have reported that audio quality is a little better with higher supply rails.. this may just be due to the increased headroom though
3. havent used in a car!
1. no idea
2. if you double the DC power input then you get 4x the power output. so definitely worth running these at 24v or higher if poss. people have reported that audio quality is a little better with higher supply rails.. this may just be due to the increased headroom though
3. havent used in a car!
2) Thanks, so gain and or max power output is supply rail dependant? This is worrying!
yes, entirely so. courtesy of saturnus, heres the basic equation:
RMS output = supply voltage squared / double the impedance * efficiency
Wrms @ 30V into 4 ohms = 30 x 30 / 4 + 4 * 88% = 99W
Wrms @ 24V into 8 ohms = 24 x 24 / 8 + 8 * 83% = 30W
Wrms @ 12V into 8 ohms = 12 x 12 / 8 + 8 * 83% = 7.5W
Where efficiency @ 8R is 83%, 4R is 88%.
So, into 8R car speakers this amplifier will give roughly 7.5w rms - which is the same as any good headunit (assuming it doesnt have rail switching).
hope this helps!
EDIT: efficiency may well be a few % out, but you get the idea
RMS output = supply voltage squared / double the impedance * efficiency
Wrms @ 30V into 4 ohms = 30 x 30 / 4 + 4 * 88% = 99W
Wrms @ 24V into 8 ohms = 24 x 24 / 8 + 8 * 83% = 30W
Wrms @ 12V into 8 ohms = 12 x 12 / 8 + 8 * 83% = 7.5W
Where efficiency @ 8R is 83%, 4R is 88%.
So, into 8R car speakers this amplifier will give roughly 7.5w rms - which is the same as any good headunit (assuming it doesnt have rail switching).
hope this helps!
EDIT: efficiency may well be a few % out, but you get the idea
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Superb! Luckily I have this (oscillated and exploded Class D) to canibalise for it's power supply and diff balanced input stage. I hope it has a decent height supply rail.
As you can see it's in a pretty sorry state! I'll strip off and make good the old Class D amps as they are prone to oscillation, then add in the Tripath job, making a more mechanically sound heatsink with thermal hard-setting glue.
As you can see it's in a pretty sorry state! I'll strip off and make good the old Class D amps as they are prone to oscillation, then add in the Tripath job, making a more mechanically sound heatsink with thermal hard-setting glue.
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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Too bad I can't seem to find a "ready-built" 4-channel amplifier using this or a similar board. I have no tools or skills to make a proper housing and all that. There's plenty of pre-built 2-channel thingies using the cheaper chips (TA2024, TA2020, including from Sure), but for my computer surround a 4-channel one could be nice to have (5.1 wouldn't hurt, but not necessary either especially as I never use a center channel). Right now I'm using a "regular" Class AB amp for the fronts, and a Topping TP30 tripath amp (awesome piece of equipment regardless of price, but definitely for the price) for rear channels. It's not a huge hassle this way, but one less power cord would never hurt, if nothing else.
hi,
I got 2 4x100 sure delivered today and went to this site and found alot of people's amps blown up in minutes of power on,I guess I am lucky mine play perfect, full volume and no hiss,cracel or pops,I put my dac and elektor crossovers and sure amps and turned it on ,everything was nice so I didn't tweak just listen for a while.....
So is there a current mods list for these I see they have a good cap in the front and back ends,and prefered power supplies?
Thanks
I got 2 4x100 sure delivered today and went to this site and found alot of people's amps blown up in minutes of power on,I guess I am lucky mine play perfect, full volume and no hiss,cracel or pops,I put my dac and elektor crossovers and sure amps and turned it on ,everything was nice so I didn't tweak just listen for a while.....
So is there a current mods list for these I see they have a good cap in the front and back ends,and prefered power supplies?
Thanks
Sure electronics 4x100 tripath boards, problem with multi channel amp
Hi
I am new to this forum and am hoping someone can assist me.
I am trying to build a 4 stereo zones (8 channel) amplifier using 2 Sure Electronics 4x100 tripath based boards.
When i connect one source to both inputs of one board, it all works fine. But when i connect the source to the other board as well (with its own Meanwell PSU), i get a high pitched sound in all channels.
It seems like some ground loop causing the feedback.
I tried creating a local ground point connecting the grounds of the two boards and the ground of the input, but it didnt work.
Attached is a simple diagram of my issue.
Any help will be appreciated
regards
Ravi
Hi
I am new to this forum and am hoping someone can assist me.
I am trying to build a 4 stereo zones (8 channel) amplifier using 2 Sure Electronics 4x100 tripath based boards.
When i connect one source to both inputs of one board, it all works fine. But when i connect the source to the other board as well (with its own Meanwell PSU), i get a high pitched sound in all channels.
It seems like some ground loop causing the feedback.
I tried creating a local ground point connecting the grounds of the two boards and the ground of the input, but it didnt work.
Attached is a simple diagram of my issue.
Any help will be appreciated
regards
Ravi
The "high pitched screech sound" sounds more like an oscillation issue to me. A ground problem usually just causes low frequency hum (60 or 120 HZ). An input stage could be source impedance sensitive. I would try putting a 1kohm resistor in series at each input of the poweramps, and see if that fixes it. I had a Hafler DH220 that would oscillate when no input was connected. About a volt of about 1mHZ... A switch-mode class D amp may still have an analog front end.
Input Modifications
The 2 x 100 version of this board required some minor modifications in order to add input caps. and a 50k pot.
Does anybody know if this board will require any mods to allow me to add input caps and pots.
I am planning on adding 2 pair of caps and 2 50k pots as I've done for the 2 channel boards.
Thanks in advance.
The 2 x 100 version of this board required some minor modifications in order to add input caps. and a 50k pot.
Does anybody know if this board will require any mods to allow me to add input caps and pots.
I am planning on adding 2 pair of caps and 2 50k pots as I've done for the 2 channel boards.
Thanks in advance.
Sure Class D amp problems
I have been going through Parts Express on-line for items and bought the Sure 2x100W TK2050 Class D amp.
Now the issues, the first amp had a high pitch sound on only one channel, sent it back and received another only this time the high pitch was on the other channel, sent it back and received the third amp, power it up the LED power lit and LED fault was out then a second later the Amp popped and smoke with no input sig and amp set to low power output. Now I'm wonder if I did any damaged to the speaker for this short time; 24VDC at what value amps going to the speaker. Hoping Parts Express will fix this issue with a working amp board.
I have been going through Parts Express on-line for items and bought the Sure 2x100W TK2050 Class D amp.
Now the issues, the first amp had a high pitch sound on only one channel, sent it back and received another only this time the high pitch was on the other channel, sent it back and received the third amp, power it up the LED power lit and LED fault was out then a second later the Amp popped and smoke with no input sig and amp set to low power output. Now I'm wonder if I did any damaged to the speaker for this short time; 24VDC at what value amps going to the speaker. Hoping Parts Express will fix this issue with a working amp board.
I did some mods to the version 1.2 of this board.
- Changed the input caps to mundorfs 2.2uF 400VDC ( c25, c26, c27, c28 ) and also removed all the stock caps that lay on the motherboard ( c29, c31, c32 ... )and just under de daughter board and bridged.
- Changed the output caps to wima 0.33uF 63vdc 5% ( c5, c6, c7, c8, c9, c10, c11, c12 ).
- Changed the coils to 10uH
- Added the Zobel network .
- Added 0.1uF cde 63vdc 5% to the outputs under the board.
- Added the support plate ( just like your computer motherboard does have ) to prevent the board from "bowing" .
The sound is close to my arjen ta2020 now and better than my modded lepai, specially the lows but it still feels like something is missing.
- Changed the input caps to mundorfs 2.2uF 400VDC ( c25, c26, c27, c28 ) and also removed all the stock caps that lay on the motherboard ( c29, c31, c32 ... )and just under de daughter board and bridged.
- Changed the output caps to wima 0.33uF 63vdc 5% ( c5, c6, c7, c8, c9, c10, c11, c12 ).
- Changed the coils to 10uH
- Added the Zobel network .
- Added 0.1uF cde 63vdc 5% to the outputs under the board.
- Added the support plate ( just like your computer motherboard does have ) to prevent the board from "bowing" .
The sound is close to my arjen ta2020 now and better than my modded lepai, specially the lows but it still feels like something is missing.
Adding to my list of mods
- Added 400uF 16v nichicon PL-U caps to the 5v lines of both, TP2000 and TP2050.
- Replaced output inductors with 10uH 4.8A rated shielded bobbin's . I had previously used these with the lepai ta2020 with great success but I have done some changes for the use with the tk2050;
I heated those shielded bobbin inductors to remove resin that kept the ferrite shield attached to the core. There were 2 wires awg 30? (gauge not confirmed ) winded in paralell there. I replaced those with 11 tight turns of awg 22 ( 11uH ), painted with varnish to reduce vibrations, put the shield back and glued it to the bobbin using poxypol.
One of the problems is that the rated current is bellow the secure margin determined by tripath. For long term use these changes may end up in disaster as you can read in the more detailed parameters for inductors from the ta2022 datasheet :
"Output inductor selection is a critical design step. The core material and geometry of the output filter inductor affects the TA2022 distortion levels, efficiency, over-current protection, power dissipation and EMI output. The inductor should have low loss at 700kHz with 80Vpp. It should be reiterated that regardless of the systems maximum operating current, a 10A rating is required to ensure that peak current conditions will not cause the inductor to saturate. During a short circuit event the inductor current increases very quickly in a saturated core (see figure 6), compromising the current protection scheme. A 10A rating is sufficient to ensure that current increases through the inductor are linear, and provides a safety margin for the TA2022. There are two types of inductors available in the 10A range that offers some EMI containment: they are the toroidal type and the bobbin (shielded) type inductor.
In bobbin construction, a ferrite shield is placed around the core of a bobbin inductor to help contain radiated emissions. This shield can reduce the amount of energy the inductor can store in the core by reducing the air gap, which can lower the peak current capability of the inductor. Typically, a 7-10A shielded bobbin inductor will not have the peak current capability necessary to ensure that the core will not saturate during short circuit events; this is why they are not recommended for use with the TA2022. Also it should be noted that shielded bobbin construction is not as effective as toroidal construction for EMI containment."
I am going to repeat what was said a thousand times about tripath amps.
By replacing the inductors on most boards the sound is improved dramatically and this should be regarded as #1 priority mod. By replacing the inductors at first you make it more easy to decide the other components values.
In my experience replacing the sure stock inductors ( 10uH ferrite ) with the 10uH shielded bobbins did set the mid and high range free as now it feels like all elements are well balanced adding soundstage and bass. Providing a ticker wire to the shielded bobbin inductors did added even more clarity and bass foundation .
I ordered a few meters of litz wire 100x42AWG and will make some Air Core inductors in a few days.
[]'s
- Added 400uF 16v nichicon PL-U caps to the 5v lines of both, TP2000 and TP2050.
- Replaced output inductors with 10uH 4.8A rated shielded bobbin's . I had previously used these with the lepai ta2020 with great success but I have done some changes for the use with the tk2050;
I heated those shielded bobbin inductors to remove resin that kept the ferrite shield attached to the core. There were 2 wires awg 30? (gauge not confirmed ) winded in paralell there. I replaced those with 11 tight turns of awg 22 ( 11uH ), painted with varnish to reduce vibrations, put the shield back and glued it to the bobbin using poxypol.
One of the problems is that the rated current is bellow the secure margin determined by tripath. For long term use these changes may end up in disaster as you can read in the more detailed parameters for inductors from the ta2022 datasheet :
"Output inductor selection is a critical design step. The core material and geometry of the output filter inductor affects the TA2022 distortion levels, efficiency, over-current protection, power dissipation and EMI output. The inductor should have low loss at 700kHz with 80Vpp. It should be reiterated that regardless of the systems maximum operating current, a 10A rating is required to ensure that peak current conditions will not cause the inductor to saturate. During a short circuit event the inductor current increases very quickly in a saturated core (see figure 6), compromising the current protection scheme. A 10A rating is sufficient to ensure that current increases through the inductor are linear, and provides a safety margin for the TA2022. There are two types of inductors available in the 10A range that offers some EMI containment: they are the toroidal type and the bobbin (shielded) type inductor.
In bobbin construction, a ferrite shield is placed around the core of a bobbin inductor to help contain radiated emissions. This shield can reduce the amount of energy the inductor can store in the core by reducing the air gap, which can lower the peak current capability of the inductor. Typically, a 7-10A shielded bobbin inductor will not have the peak current capability necessary to ensure that the core will not saturate during short circuit events; this is why they are not recommended for use with the TA2022. Also it should be noted that shielded bobbin construction is not as effective as toroidal construction for EMI containment."
I am going to repeat what was said a thousand times about tripath amps.
By replacing the inductors on most boards the sound is improved dramatically and this should be regarded as #1 priority mod. By replacing the inductors at first you make it more easy to decide the other components values.
In my experience replacing the sure stock inductors ( 10uH ferrite ) with the 10uH shielded bobbins did set the mid and high range free as now it feels like all elements are well balanced adding soundstage and bass. Providing a ticker wire to the shielded bobbin inductors did added even more clarity and bass foundation .
I ordered a few meters of litz wire 100x42AWG and will make some Air Core inductors in a few days.
[]'s
I too have purchased two of these boards and started modding them slightly. I intended to replace the input capacitors, among other things ofcourse, but was wondering if it would be possible to just remove them all together?
Thing is, they'll be used as poweramps for a 8 channel dsp amp where the signal will be fed bij two minidsp boards wich already got pretty decent 470uF Nichicon Muse output capacitors.
Annyone tried such a thing yet? Can't get less signal alteration from the caps then by removing them altogether i thought.
Greetings, Reinder
Thing is, they'll be used as poweramps for a 8 channel dsp amp where the signal will be fed bij two minidsp boards wich already got pretty decent 470uF Nichicon Muse output capacitors.
Annyone tried such a thing yet? Can't get less signal alteration from the caps then by removing them altogether i thought
.Greetings, Reinder
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