https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micarta
I think Wilson Audio uses Micarta in some of their models (Wilson's X Material). You will hurt you hand if you do the 'knock test' on a Wilson Audio product.
Small sheets on eBay for knife handles, etc.
Wilson says:
Methacrylic/Ceramic compounds: These are ideal for mid and high frequency enclosures because they are extremely hard and solid allowing for a tremendous dynamic wavelaunch. They do not change the pitch of music, and they have superior damping characteristics to MDF. This material also has an extremely low natural resonant frequency, meaning that the enclosure is less likely to resonate sympathetically.
High Density Phenolic: By far this is the best, most non-resonant material we have ever encountered. It has almost no ringing at all, and does not alter the pitch or tonal character of music. We use this material where applicable, especially in low frequency enclosures.
Developing these breakthrough technologies is not done for marketing purposes and these technologies are not used indiscriminately. They are used only if their benefits are suited to the application at hand. Materials technology is one of the least understood and most poorly applied facets of loudspeaker design. By applying our research and knowledge in this field, we are able to deliver a product that is dynamic, involving, and true to the intent of the recording.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
X material is a cellulose (paper) and phenolic composite.
Having achieved such an impressive research payoff with X material, the next challenge was to create a composite more ideally suited to the midrange that could improve upon and replace mineral-filled acrylic.
The result of this endeavor was M material, a wood particle and phenolic resin laminate, which approaches X material's combination of high rigidity and high damping, but with a specific hardness that coupled ideally with midrange driver frames.
M material was first used in the Series 1 MAXX, from whence it took its name. Its first appearance in a WATT cabinet came in 2002, with the introduction of WATT/Puppy System 7. The fourth generation M (M4), which is an epoxy laminate, is used in both MAXX Series 3, and Alexandria Series 2.
Sasha introduces Wilson's newest material, which is a combination of natural fibers in a phenolic resin laminate. While precedent would suggest we call it "S" material, we're frankly less concerned with naming it right away than with exploring its true potential. Within Sasha, it's employed as the baffle material in the upper module, achieving a new standard for low coloration and midrange beauty.
I think Wilson Audio uses Micarta in some of their models (Wilson's X Material). You will hurt you hand if you do the 'knock test' on a Wilson Audio product.
Small sheets on eBay for knife handles, etc.
Wilson says:
Methacrylic/Ceramic compounds: These are ideal for mid and high frequency enclosures because they are extremely hard and solid allowing for a tremendous dynamic wavelaunch. They do not change the pitch of music, and they have superior damping characteristics to MDF. This material also has an extremely low natural resonant frequency, meaning that the enclosure is less likely to resonate sympathetically.
High Density Phenolic: By far this is the best, most non-resonant material we have ever encountered. It has almost no ringing at all, and does not alter the pitch or tonal character of music. We use this material where applicable, especially in low frequency enclosures.
Developing these breakthrough technologies is not done for marketing purposes and these technologies are not used indiscriminately. They are used only if their benefits are suited to the application at hand. Materials technology is one of the least understood and most poorly applied facets of loudspeaker design. By applying our research and knowledge in this field, we are able to deliver a product that is dynamic, involving, and true to the intent of the recording.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
X material is a cellulose (paper) and phenolic composite.
Having achieved such an impressive research payoff with X material, the next challenge was to create a composite more ideally suited to the midrange that could improve upon and replace mineral-filled acrylic.
The result of this endeavor was M material, a wood particle and phenolic resin laminate, which approaches X material's combination of high rigidity and high damping, but with a specific hardness that coupled ideally with midrange driver frames.
M material was first used in the Series 1 MAXX, from whence it took its name. Its first appearance in a WATT cabinet came in 2002, with the introduction of WATT/Puppy System 7. The fourth generation M (M4), which is an epoxy laminate, is used in both MAXX Series 3, and Alexandria Series 2.
Sasha introduces Wilson's newest material, which is a combination of natural fibers in a phenolic resin laminate. While precedent would suggest we call it "S" material, we're frankly less concerned with naming it right away than with exploring its true potential. Within Sasha, it's employed as the baffle material in the upper module, achieving a new standard for low coloration and midrange beauty.
Last edited:
Thanks for posting this. While I was aware of Wilson's X and M materials I had not made the connection to Micarta. My plan was to use it for the front panel only. Do you think it would be a good idea to use it for the midrange and tweeter cabinet too?
Micarta has been used for decades in industrial applications. As mentioned above, its non-conductive properties make it a good choice in electrical applications, panels, etc. Another application is in open chains of gears, where lubrication is almost imposible and keeping noise down is imporatnt. Micarta gears used in between steel gears make little noise. We are talking large gears, like two feet diameter or more, conducting over 20 HP of power...typically makes noise! I think this ties back to the low ringing of this material. Hence my idea to try it.
Micarta has been used for decades in industrial applications. As mentioned above, its non-conductive properties make it a good choice in electrical applications, panels, etc. Another application is in open chains of gears, where lubrication is almost imposible and keeping noise down is imporatnt. Micarta gears used in between steel gears make little noise. We are talking large gears, like two feet diameter or more, conducting over 20 HP of power...typically makes noise! I think this ties back to the low ringing of this material. Hence my idea to try it.
Of course! As I previously noted, high density composites are where you want to be once moving away from metal, so when one wants the rigidity/damping of a W.E. HF horn without the mess and at a lower weight: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/276721-best-cabinet-material.html#post4383016
I no longer have the reference chart to determine how much thicker Micarta must be or whether it will be any cheaper, though you can brace it and/or use something cheaper to further stiffen/mass load it, such as thick vinyl, rubber composite or ceramic, tiles or similar.
GM
Last edited:
The Micarta I saw made decades ago used a fiberglass mat, but for speaker cab apps, most any fabric that can withstand the molding process should be fine.
GM
Interesting, back when I went to the B-W Nautilus premier, someone who probably would know admitted that the large Wilson on display was made with Corian after I'd wisecracked about its kitchen countertop 'look', yet this makes them sound like they developed it. Ditto Benelex J, Spauldite, materials originally designed for high voltage apps up to 100 kV to replace metal and porcelain copper bus, cable, stand-offs with something that could be large commercial saw cut, machined to spec.
GM
You went to the Nautilus Display?
What did you think?
I ask as a few years back; a client, doing a Multi Million$ reno on his Ski Cabin Was talked into a pair by the AV people.
He was intrigued by their oddball style I suspect.
Attending the reveal.. had to hear the things
I was surprised by their Mediocre sounds.
As was the client..Lotsa Red faces that day
They were carted off within days.
Emperor's Clothes comes to mind
What did you think?
I ask as a few years back; a client, doing a Multi Million$ reno on his Ski Cabin Was talked into a pair by the AV people.
He was intrigued by their oddball style I suspect.
Attending the reveal.. had to hear the things
I was surprised by their Mediocre sounds.
As was the client..Lotsa Red faces that day
They were carted off within days.
Emperor's Clothes comes to mind
Indeed I did, RSVP not because I was a potential client, but because they knew I had foreknowledge/understood the acoustics of its cab alignment from some of my DIY TL, horn designs.
Anyway, was really looking forward to it, a rarity since I've always been pretty vocal about the performance of consumer audio, especially the high end segment, but after just a few minutes got up and wandered around to 'catch up' on what the other 'hot ticket' brands/models currently were and what folks were paying for their 'bragging rights'.
Like you, I found them to have a very flat, 'milk toast' [un-involving] sort of presentation, though the highs were so 'airy' that they sounded disembodied, floating' above, around the rest of the music. Really weird sounding to me, though the 'high roller', self appointed audiophile cognoscenti in attendance gave them a ~standing ovation, though AFAIK it only netted one sale.
The only praise I could give them was its incredible styling, workmanship. If I had the money to spare, I'd have a pair on display just for their 'artwork'. Performance wise, they would only be suitable for wide BW 'Muzak' low level playback.
The store folks of course figured my response had more to do with me having basically a tweaked cinema sound/live PA horn system for reference than any major shortcomings of the Nautilus and according to the store owner, the B-W rep just wanted to know why I was issued an RSVP.
GM
Anyway, was really looking forward to it, a rarity since I've always been pretty vocal about the performance of consumer audio, especially the high end segment, but after just a few minutes got up and wandered around to 'catch up' on what the other 'hot ticket' brands/models currently were and what folks were paying for their 'bragging rights'.
Like you, I found them to have a very flat, 'milk toast' [un-involving] sort of presentation, though the highs were so 'airy' that they sounded disembodied, floating' above, around the rest of the music. Really weird sounding to me, though the 'high roller', self appointed audiophile cognoscenti in attendance gave them a ~standing ovation, though AFAIK it only netted one sale.
The only praise I could give them was its incredible styling, workmanship. If I had the money to spare, I'd have a pair on display just for their 'artwork'. Performance wise, they would only be suitable for wide BW 'Muzak' low level playback.
The store folks of course figured my response had more to do with me having basically a tweaked cinema sound/live PA horn system for reference than any major shortcomings of the Nautilus and according to the store owner, the B-W rep just wanted to know why I was issued an RSVP.
GM
I apologize upfront for derailing the topic.
GM, I noted your comment about understanding TL. I'm looking into a design and have stumbled across TL, but I'm not sure if it's the right place to apply it. Would love to get your pont of view.
I'm designing an active 4-way system. A couple of sealed subwoofers (existing) handle below 80Hz. I'm wondering if sealed TL is appropriate/recommendable for the midbass, at 80-450Hz. It will either be one 12" or two 10" per side. I'm shifting towards the twin 10" (Beyma 10G40).
I have not seen much info on Transmission Lines. Would really appreciate the input.
Fair enough. Here it is: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...ed-transmission-line-midbass.html#post4397609
Thanks in advance!
and sorry to the other folks for the sidetrack.
So should I post pictures of my cabinet material...or have I been completely run over? LOL!
You know I do automotive paint and body for a living. The best material is not always what we "think" it is best, but rather a combination of factors.
For example...you may be aware of the common problem of headlight lenses fading and yellowing. There is a simple solution to this problem. Coating the lenses with the same clear coat that is on all the vehicles would ELIMINATE this problem becasue the clear is formulated with UV blockers which actually work. But the auto industry won't spend the extra money for the application plus the added assembly line step it would require...they can sell them as is and have been for decades now!
HDF IMO, has all the properties for a number of reasons, except for the fact that you CANNOT BUY IT ANT WHERE!
I found a solution and offered it up!
Maybe I should have title this thread..."Best cabinet material you can get that you thought you couldn't"...then these posts would be different!
I am in the business of offering solutions...it's how I think! Most of these post just offer up more problems>>>IMO!
You know I do automotive paint and body for a living. The best material is not always what we "think" it is best, but rather a combination of factors.
For example...you may be aware of the common problem of headlight lenses fading and yellowing. There is a simple solution to this problem. Coating the lenses with the same clear coat that is on all the vehicles would ELIMINATE this problem becasue the clear is formulated with UV blockers which actually work. But the auto industry won't spend the extra money for the application plus the added assembly line step it would require...they can sell them as is and have been for decades now!
HDF IMO, has all the properties for a number of reasons, except for the fact that you CANNOT BUY IT ANT WHERE!
I found a solution and offered it up!
Maybe I should have title this thread..."Best cabinet material you can get that you thought you couldn't"...then these posts would be different!
I am in the business of offering solutions...it's how I think! Most of these post just offer up more problems>>>IMO!
The best I've used is Smooth-On Task 18 aluminum filled epoxy urethane. Made castings for baffles. There's a mineral filled version as well that's less expensive. Very dense and virtually inert acoustically. Real finicky about mix and pour though. Machineable, sandable and paintable. Been wondering about that long strand fiberglass bondo as an alternative in a casting.
Currently working with 1/4" plywood PVA glued over MDF which seems to have the best qualities of both. Required mitred edges of course. Along with poplar bracing, it's an interesting mix.
Currently working with 1/4" plywood PVA glued over MDF which seems to have the best qualities of both. Required mitred edges of course. Along with poplar bracing, it's an interesting mix.
What are your reasons for the claim?
A woofer cabinet needs to be stiff to push the cabinet resonances above the passband and possess a small amount of damping. HDF doesn't appear particularly well suited to this task because it is not particularly stiff compared to alternative materials. Plywood would seem to be a better wood based material for the task given its higher stiffness for weight.
A midrange/tweeter cabinet needs to possess a reasonable level of stiffness but a high level of damping to push down the resonant peaks where the forces due to mass and stiffness cancel making their size largely irrelevant. HDF doesn't seem particularly well suited to this task either because it possesses a modest level of damping. A compressed, resin impregnated, plywood would seem to be a significantly better wood-based material for this task.
Of course there are other considerations like cost, machining, surface finish, availability, etc... that may modify a case based solely on the mass, stiffness and damping properties but it is hard to see HDF coming out on top but I am willing to be persuaded.
Agreed. We switched top ply over a decade ago and haven't looked back. HDF is readily available here under the brand name medite.
dave
All the Medite branded stuff I've ever come across has all been a MDF based board or variations of same etc..Welcome to the forum - this will happen every time you press the send button.
That fabric in resin stuff - been using that stuff in aeromodelling for 30+ years - makes good firewall reinforcement, you know, bolting nasty vibrating engines to it.
Works well.