The journey alone is worth it. I've learned so much about audio perception within this project. The moments of pure bliss, chills down your spine.
In the end it's doing what we love, isn't it? The combination of working on something you believe in and the rewards of making it work.
So much of what I've read in the past fell into place during this journey. Nothing can take that away from me again (well almost nothing
).
I'll be quicker next time. But someone said to me at the start, I think it was Bob: "This might be the last speaker you'll ever need to build!"
For most on here the journey is the reward. People just love to build something with their own two hands, myself included. I wouldn't need to build anything else. But curiosity might get the better of me, what if I used a Synergy approach? Now I know I wont, at least not for our living room. But making something is part of the fun too. I enjoyed the thinking part too, way before I ever started to build anything.
I might have said it before and I will say it again: This project combined everything I love to do. The puzzle, the building part and the listening enjoyment. And it sure thought me a thing or two about myself. I have learned to be patient. Don't rush in, take it step by step. Always think things trough. I never thought about quitting, but the half year wait after my enclosures cracked has been the ultimate test.
I've read all the advise I got. Weighed it, and thought about it. In the end I went for a solution of my own (I'll admit, I am a stubborn person). Writing about it and getting feedback from you guys has been a great motivator. I was never alone in this journey. You guys always had my back. There have been times when I thought I was talking to myself, anyone with a thread of their own will probably recognise that. So when I see someone sharing their journey an I notice a lack of replies I always try to put some words down.
In the end it's doing what we love, isn't it? The combination of working on something you believe in and the rewards of making it work.
So much of what I've read in the past fell into place during this journey. Nothing can take that away from me again (well almost nothing
).I'll be quicker next time. But someone said to me at the start, I think it was Bob: "This might be the last speaker you'll ever need to build!"
For most on here the journey is the reward. People just love to build something with their own two hands, myself included. I wouldn't need to build anything else. But curiosity might get the better of me, what if I used a Synergy approach?
Now I know I wont, at least not for our living room. But making something is part of the fun too. I enjoyed the thinking part too, way before I ever started to build anything. I might have said it before and I will say it again: This project combined everything I love to do. The puzzle, the building part and the listening enjoyment. And it sure thought me a thing or two about myself. I have learned to be patient. Don't rush in, take it step by step. Always think things trough. I never thought about quitting, but the half year wait after my enclosures cracked has been the ultimate test.
I've read all the advise I got. Weighed it, and thought about it. In the end I went for a solution of my own (I'll admit, I am a stubborn person). Writing about it and getting feedback from you guys has been a great motivator. I was never alone in this journey. You guys always had my back. There have been times when I thought I was talking to myself, anyone with a thread of their own will probably recognise that. So when I see someone sharing their journey an I notice a lack of replies I always try to put some words down.
What, didnt wesayso play the towers without signal processing??
I realize I am a mere mortal and confined with mine "unprocessed" to that extreme - but I am happy, very happy
What, didnt wesayso play the towers without signal processing??
I realize I am a mere mortal and confined with mine "unprocessed" to that extreme - but I am happy, very happy
You've got the room thing under control, you have done a lot of damping, right? Could it be better? Probably... do you need it to be better? Only you can answer that one
.Sometimes it doesn't help me English isn't my native tongue, is this a good thing? Am I poetic in my writing? Or the opposite...
Thanks though... I'm glad there's people that enjoy my ramblings...
You've got the room thing under control, you have done a lot of damping, right? Could it be better? Probably... do you need it to be better? Only you can answer that one
The room is pretty controlled - atleast in combination with the arrays
All walls have some sort of damping in place and amounts vary between side/rear/front wall. IIRC I used approx 16pcs 3" 4x2´Rockwool sheets.
I am not sure I need it "better" - I´d like "more" as in more power exepcially since I am running the Vifa´s all the way down and that sucks power. When I drop the low end boost they can go reeeeally high...clearly too! (pun intended
)Had half an hour in front of them today paired with my F5, clarity is really really good but 50W total go only so far...
I can only imagine how well your arrays performed when tweaked in every sense possible
You have the space, right? Make it a surround system with 3 more arrays
That would probably be awesome...
The sitting area is rather close to the rear wall and the outer two positions would end up <60cm away from the surround arrays. Maybe it is too close.
Also due to how my projected screen is arranged the center array would be forced to be placed horisontally.
However 4 or 8 vifa's in a short array for surround could be cool and add to the ambience??
I know they can go insanely loud with a relaxed bottom end. I've had the midrange up to 130 dB
It wasn't intentional and I won't do it again
Haha, I can relate. The SPL is deceptive, one can easily be fooled to think it is lower than it really is when playing the arrays
The surrounds will be fun! For music you'd want them to be diffused, for HT you might like them more aimed, but it works very well with the diffused output for me. You should be able to time them just right though, you'd need time alignment to fire them a bit later than the mains. Especially when they are close. Plus some EQ (band pass).
It's too bad you don't run a PC, something like JRiver can make all the needed signals and even if it can't, there will be a plugin available that can.
It's too bad you don't run a PC, something like JRiver can make all the needed signals and even if it can't, there will be a plugin available that can.
Sometimes it doesn't help me English isn't my native tongue, is this a good thing? Am I poetic in my writing? Or the opposite...
Thanks though... I'm glad there's people that enjoy my ramblings...
English ain't my naitve tongue either - but sometimes, talking about your columns, you're really poetic. One can feel that every word comes from your heart.
Quick congratulations...
Wow, I missed out on all the fun!
Congratulations, Ronald!
I understand. I like my Avebury system, but I keep coming back to my arrays. Just the sheer charity and massive soundstage can not be beat. I keep tweaking away, and it is getting better...
I have 64 vifa's, what am I waiting for? (less work and snow)
I had better get to work, before I am late (again)...
Wow, I missed out on all the fun!
One word: Uneffingbeliveable.
Hands down the best speakers I have ever heard. Unrivaled by probably 99% of anything out there commercially or DIY.
Congratulations, Ronald!
I understand. I like my Avebury system, but I keep coming back to my arrays. Just the sheer charity and massive soundstage can not be beat. I keep tweaking away, and it is getting better...
I have 64 vifa's, what am I waiting for? (less work and snow
)I had better get to work, before I am late (again)...
...I have 64 vifa's, what am I waiting for? (less work and snow
Sure, guess get feeded those Vifa's wires from your new FO amp and some magic settings into JRiver's engine stomach and you get audio heaven.
I am still deciding. Ideally for my current listening room, I can fit 30/cabinet, but I might go 25/cabinet, so I can drive them around and set them up in other rooms with standard ceiling heights. Either way, I would use my current arrays (16 drivers/cabinet, 60" line) for surround sound, although I would redo the cabinets.
This concept really has a lot going for it, as Linkwitz calls it "direct-to-reverberant sound ratio." I hear a lot of my room with my point source Avebury system. They still have the edge on upper range detail, but my current arrays are getting closer the more I tweak. The Vifa does have a smoother high end compared to the NSB drivers, so we will see.
It is also worth noting that my Avebury has a 11" x 18" foot print and can go down to 25 Hz - impressive for a single 6" driver. Yet, Ronald's Two Towers is capable of 17 Hz, and it has a smaller foot print!
I really think more people need to hear these line array designs. My NSB's are pretty impressive given the cost of the drivers and the terrible cabinets. These arrays have turned out to be the funnest and most tweak-able systems I have ever had. The experiment became the main system. I would show them off more, but I am too embarrassed to.
And in case You are wondering Ronald, I did try DCRdesigner. I must have done something wrong, because it sounded like I was inside a fish tank, and this was with the ERP filter! I can say, I got the flattest in-room response and the lowest bass I have ever heard from these arrays, but there was no music left. I think I need to play with the targets more and get the sweep to work in ASIO (which I could not before). But I am thinking I need to: #1 remove ALL vibrating objects from my room (stain glass art, remote controls, and the such), and #2 build a way better cabinet for the arrays. I think the software was trying to fix my hacked together cabinets.
I will try it with Avebury, see if I get reasonable results. The moral of the story here: If You are going to build arrays, even with cheap drivers, it would be in your best interest to build good cabinets. I am here to share this mistake so You do not have to!
Allen, no standard template would make or keep me happy. The ERB is pretty short duration in the bass (that's good), but is way too long in the mid frequencies for my taste. You'd be better off using the custom part of DrcDesigner so you can vary the correction lengths at will and test it like that. Many people use way too long windows in DSP and blame the bad sound they get on what result they get out of that concept. I've played with the window settings in Highs, Mids and Lows to determine my sweet spot "length" in each. There's nothing worse than overcorrecting. There's no other place where it will stand out like it will in the mid region.
First judge your IR to make sure you do have a clean enough signal without using any form of DSP. Meaning no big huge spikes following that first peak. In REW you can turn on the STEP response and see how that STEP can change shape wherever there's too much reflections happening. If you don't fix that your DSP correction algorithm has to battle with it.
I also advise to use REW for the IR measurement to use/correct with DrcDesigner, as it will give you a visual reference of all the steps you take. You're better off starting with the Soft template.
First judge your IR to make sure you do have a clean enough signal without using any form of DSP. Meaning no big huge spikes following that first peak. In REW you can turn on the STEP response and see how that STEP can change shape wherever there's too much reflections happening. If you don't fix that your DSP correction algorithm has to battle with it.
I also advise to use REW for the IR measurement to use/correct with DrcDesigner, as it will give you a visual reference of all the steps you take. You're better off starting with the Soft template.
No sub due to poor WAF?
@wesayso
A few posts back you were discussing the possibility of adding a subwoofer to your system but felt like it would not happen due to poor WAF. As I recall, your Haas Kickers are located behind your listening couch which requires it to be somewhat away from the back wall. Couldn't you design/build a slimline sub that would integrate into that free space behind your couch? That way it would avoid issues with WAF as it would be largely hidden and you would have the benefit of relieving your arrays from reproducing the lower couple of octaves. Not to mention what it would do for experiencing those explosions during movies!
@wesayso
A few posts back you were discussing the possibility of adding a subwoofer to your system but felt like it would not happen due to poor WAF. As I recall, your Haas Kickers are located behind your listening couch which requires it to be somewhat away from the back wall. Couldn't you design/build a slimline sub that would integrate into that free space behind your couch? That way it would avoid issues with WAF as it would be largely hidden and you would have the benefit of relieving your arrays from reproducing the lower couple of octaves. Not to mention what it would do for experiencing those explosions during movies!
