Look at this recent comparison by BYRTT, TC9 and 10F:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/242171-making-two-towers-25-driver-full-range-line-array-325.html#post4980826
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/242171-making-two-towers-25-driver-full-range-line-array-325.html#post4980826
someday will come 
I have just checked with Digikey about the pricing of the two Vifa/peerles units , th TG and the TC.
They have no explanation on the very cheap price on the TG , but they confirm it and the lead time as well.
The TC price at the same number of pieces is $7,5 ???
So this is really a bargain price for the TG.
They have no explanation on the very cheap price on the TG , but they confirm it and the lead time as well.
The TC price at the same number of pieces is $7,5 ???
So this is really a bargain price for the TG.
No problem, if I had to pick again between the two, chances are I would pick the TC9 again. All because up till now I have been a fan of paper in more than one case. That doesn't mean I'm right about it.
It is a bargain, it's also a huge number of drivers!
Some quick feedback about digikey.com.au:
First, I enquired about the Vifa price from WES here in Australia. They said they'd get back to me, but they never did.
So I ordered the Vifas from digikey.com.au. They ordered the units from their warehouse in the US.
All in all, it took just 48 1/2 hours from the time I ordered them online to their arrival on my doorstep here in Sydney.
They were tracked all the way, with regular updates.
Support Digikey -- they were great!
First, I enquired about the Vifa price from WES here in Australia. They said they'd get back to me, but they never did.
So I ordered the Vifas from digikey.com.au. They ordered the units from their warehouse in the US.
All in all, it took just 48 1/2 hours from the time I ordered them online to their arrival on my doorstep here in Sydney.
They were tracked all the way, with regular updates.
Support Digikey -- they were great!
Digikey are great for items that are in stock and they have quite a few of the TC9 drivers. I was looking at them for some others and the minimum order quantities vary a lot and most are non stock with an 18 week factory lead time. No issue for the TC9 but worth checking before looking at other's.
I just now checked with Digikey about the TG9's, and it's a non-stocked item, but the price is only $11.83 each (about $22 at Parts Express or Madisound), but the minimum quantity is 48, which isn't a problem if you're doing a 25 per side line array. The published FR graph says the TG beats the TC (less deviation above 5kHZ or so) .
As far as cone material types, I think it's hard to judge because they are all complex. Paper is often a safe bet, but is usually paper saturated with something resembling plastic. The glass fiber in the TG9 is also a mixture of chemistries. Personally I prefer a driver that has minimal abrupt FR fluxuations, so it's easily correctable with regular Baxandall tone controls. So even though I don't like the look of the TG9 white cone with black center as much as the all black TC9, I still prefer the TG9 myself. But they're both very good sounding drivers.
As far as cone material types, I think it's hard to judge because they are all complex. Paper is often a safe bet, but is usually paper saturated with something resembling plastic. The glass fiber in the TG9 is also a mixture of chemistries. Personally I prefer a driver that has minimal abrupt FR fluxuations, so it's easily correctable with regular Baxandall tone controls. So even though I don't like the look of the TG9 white cone with black center as much as the all black TC9, I still prefer the TG9 myself. But they're both very good sounding drivers.
I think that is the 4 Ohm version you got a quote on, and that is to be avoided. It is not them same performer as either the TG9 8 Ohm or the TC9 in either 8 or 16 Ohm. Strangely enough the 4 Ohm 3,5" Vifa/peerless are not very good apparently.
In the end everyone will have to make up their own mind what driver to use.
For me, money wasn't the biggest reason at that time (I didn't yet know times were changing soon). I've seen and read a lot about all kinds of arrays with full range drivers. Not all were successful though. Many blame the type of speaker, is that valid?
Primary reason to pick something from the Vifa line? Either the TG or TC? Just get yourself one of these and measure. People keep denying measurements and their relation to what we hear. Look harder! Dig deeper! The relation is there. Especially when you figure out we have two ears we use.
This isn't denying that a driver can sound nice, while its measurements might not be optimal. For that you still have to look a bit harder and learn why that specific driver works.
Correcting a driver works too, not "just" fixing the FR with EQ, but digging deeper, really looking at what your ears get and why.
I still see people that say: I had driver XXX and EQ-ed it flat and it sounded boring etc. Decide when the sound should be correct. Same goes for phase. Watch and learn about your room properties. Measure it! EQ-ing the room? Not if you can fix it in another way! I bet most people still think DSP is the magic in my measurements. While the truth is the speakers + room + treatment allowed me to get there. Not DSP alone. How many threads do we see that use DSP that still don't look clean?
Users like Jim1961 have proven we can do a lot with the room alone. Yes it's going to be invasive and will look funny to your girlfriend or wife. That's why I wanted another solution. Not nearly at the level of a room like that, but way above average for a living room. Again: it's the combination that counts! It's not the speakers, nor the room itself or the DSP used, it's the complete combination of them all.
Sorry for this rant... I just want to get that point out there, again and again... as most people just go past that. Whatever kind of speaker you like, treat the room + speakers as a system you (have to) optimise. That's when you get ahead.
Imagine what happens if you move relative to the drivers used in your specific speaker, whatever that may be. A full range? You're fine. A coax? You're fine if the bass doesn't mess up the higher frequencies. A Synergy: it's like a full range, you're fine. A floor to ceiling array? As long as our ears remain at the sides of our head, you're fine. Maybe even better than fine, less reflections to worry about!
A conventional 3 way? You have to figure that out by yourself.
Now it's getting complicated... You may still be fine, but know what you have.
For me, money wasn't the biggest reason at that time (I didn't yet know times were changing soon). I've seen and read a lot about all kinds of arrays with full range drivers. Not all were successful though. Many blame the type of speaker, is that valid?
Primary reason to pick something from the Vifa line? Either the TG or TC? Just get yourself one of these and measure. People keep denying measurements and their relation to what we hear. Look harder! Dig deeper! The relation is there. Especially when you figure out we have two ears we use.
This isn't denying that a driver can sound nice, while its measurements might not be optimal. For that you still have to look a bit harder and learn why that specific driver works.
Correcting a driver works too, not "just" fixing the FR with EQ, but digging deeper, really looking at what your ears get and why.
I still see people that say: I had driver XXX and EQ-ed it flat and it sounded boring etc. Decide when the sound should be correct. Same goes for phase. Watch and learn about your room properties. Measure it! EQ-ing the room? Not if you can fix it in another way! I bet most people still think DSP is the magic in my measurements. While the truth is the speakers + room + treatment allowed me to get there. Not DSP alone. How many threads do we see that use DSP that still don't look clean?
Users like Jim1961 have proven we can do a lot with the room alone. Yes it's going to be invasive and will look funny to your girlfriend or wife. That's why I wanted another solution. Not nearly at the level of a room like that, but way above average for a living room. Again: it's the combination that counts! It's not the speakers, nor the room itself or the DSP used, it's the complete combination of them all.
Sorry for this rant... I just want to get that point out there, again and again... as most people just go past that. Whatever kind of speaker you like, treat the room + speakers as a system you (have to) optimise. That's when you get ahead.
Imagine what happens if you move relative to the drivers used in your specific speaker, whatever that may be. A full range? You're fine. A coax? You're fine if the bass doesn't mess up the higher frequencies. A Synergy: it's like a full range, you're fine. A floor to ceiling array? As long as our ears remain at the sides of our head, you're fine. Maybe even better than fine, less reflections to worry about!
A conventional 3 way? You have to figure that out by yourself.
Now it's getting complicated... You may still be fine, but know what you have
.
I totally agree. For years I've been chanting, "The weakest link in a playback system is most likely how the speakers interact with the listening room acoustics, unless the speakers are pretty bad." Once you actually do a bunch of measurements with a calibrated mic, this is hard to deny.
Wesayso,
Your last post essentially tells the tale of what it takes to get great results in diy audio. My uncle who is like a father to me builds some amazing speakers. Phenolic baffles, mostly Scan Speak or Focal drivers, Mundorf, Cardas blah blah blah. He always has phenomenal results.
One day I spent with him he was delaminating Cardas wire. Each freaking strand!! I asked him why all the fuss about such a minor detail. He said "It's like splitting hairs. Isn't it? You split a few and you can't tell much of a difference. You split many and the outcome is something special."
One can't just come into the diy scene and throw together some decent parts and come out with what you have accomplished. But if one does enough research, testing, trials, failures, and uses solid theory you can come away with something special that would take a very thick wallet to achieve otherwise.
I always crack up at the posts that people make saying "Whats the best....?" or "Will this sound good?" I understand where they are coming from but get your hands dirty. Do some testing. Try things. See what you like. Maybe what I like totally sucks in your opinion. But mostly educate yourself and leave no stone unturned and you will be on your way to a great sounding system. I'm on this forum several times daily to learn. Maybe I need a 12 step program? 12? Peerless xxls 12? There's no hope for me.
Your last post essentially tells the tale of what it takes to get great results in diy audio. My uncle who is like a father to me builds some amazing speakers. Phenolic baffles, mostly Scan Speak or Focal drivers, Mundorf, Cardas blah blah blah. He always has phenomenal results.
One day I spent with him he was delaminating Cardas wire. Each freaking strand!! I asked him why all the fuss about such a minor detail. He said "It's like splitting hairs. Isn't it? You split a few and you can't tell much of a difference. You split many and the outcome is something special."
One can't just come into the diy scene and throw together some decent parts and come out with what you have accomplished. But if one does enough research, testing, trials, failures, and uses solid theory you can come away with something special that would take a very thick wallet to achieve otherwise.
I always crack up at the posts that people make saying "Whats the best....?" or "Will this sound good?" I understand where they are coming from but get your hands dirty. Do some testing. Try things. See what you like. Maybe what I like totally sucks in your opinion. But mostly educate yourself and leave no stone unturned and you will be on your way to a great sounding system. I'm on this forum several times daily to learn. Maybe I need a 12 step program? 12? Peerless xxls 12? There's no hope for me.
As did I for my build
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...column-my-line-array-build-20-fr-drivers.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...column-my-line-array-build-20-fr-drivers.html
As did I for my build
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...column-my-line-array-build-20-fr-drivers.html
Sorry forgot about your beautiful LA , Halair.
Are they performing to your satisfaction?
Seems like your thread stopped in 2014..
I would love to hear your end result and see the pictures..
No worries, just weighing in
I am most happy with mine and enjoy them as often as I can - which isnt as often as I would like
The only change since mine were finished is adding a better DAC into my signal chain (Benchmark DAC2 USB) and that lifted my SQ up even more.
If I ever get around a new speaker build I will only improve the cabinet, increase number of drivers per side (25) and do the EQ within the digital domain. They are that good
Have done other projects since completing my arrays like making a F5 classA amplifier (work veeery well with the arrays on lower SPL's), building an opensource flight computer for my sailplane (svævefly) and designing/building a diy CNC setup I like building stuff... 
I am most happy with mine and enjoy them as often as I can - which isnt as often as I would like
The only change since mine were finished is adding a better DAC into my signal chain (Benchmark DAC2 USB) and that lifted my SQ up even more.
If I ever get around a new speaker build I will only improve the cabinet, increase number of drivers per side (25) and do the EQ within the digital domain. They are that good
Have done other projects since completing my arrays like making a F5 classA amplifier (work veeery well with the arrays on lower SPL's), building an opensource flight computer for my sailplane (svævefly) and designing/building a diy CNC setup
I like building stuff...