What do you think of this lecture on speaker placement? Suggests toe-in and tilting speakers backwards as well as moving them forwards one at a time to find the best position for stereo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84Pf0ycbyBM
Website is this:Home
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84Pf0ycbyBM
Website is this:Home
I viewed most of the video and liked it. There's definitely some truth to it. Talking for myself, I don't need to rake my speakers to get proper height but I did play around with toe in to get the best sweet spot. And he's right in that you will hear the difference. I can relate to the sound bloom statement. When it's right and locked in the air is filled with sound as in a regular concert. What he's doing, and everybody should at least try, is making the speakers work with the room for a pleasurable experience. Nothing wrong with that at all. I've done that with my old speakers, big rectangle ones which can be found in some of my early pictures in this thread. I got them to image, create a wide stereo stage and be more enjoyable. But I'd never be allowed to have them there 
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I would say: Go play!
My problem was that I wanted the speakers to be out in the room and my girlfriend wouldn't allow that and my kid might run into them etc. Even then you still can get it right with a little room treatment and some processing. That's why my speakers ended up close to the wall and that hindrance actually made me go for line arrays. Horns would have been another option.
I had already asked and discussed where I was allowed to put them, and away from the walls just wasn't an option for her. It made me look for a type of speaker that could get away with that restriction, and it definitely worked. I just got crazy after that and decided to maximize my setup even further and learn as much as possible in that process.
Funny he mentioned "Steely Dan" and the background choirs on their songs. I'd recommend the track "Hey Nineteen" from the album "Gaucho". One of my reference tracks among many others.
.I would say: Go play!
My problem was that I wanted the speakers to be out in the room and my girlfriend wouldn't allow that and my kid might run into them etc. Even then you still can get it right with a little room treatment and some processing. That's why my speakers ended up close to the wall and that hindrance actually made me go for line arrays. Horns would have been another option.
I had already asked and discussed where I was allowed to put them, and away from the walls just wasn't an option for her. It made me look for a type of speaker that could get away with that restriction, and it definitely worked. I just got crazy after that and decided to maximize my setup even further and learn as much as possible in that process.
Funny he mentioned "Steely Dan" and the background choirs on their songs. I'd recommend the track "Hey Nineteen" from the album "Gaucho". One of my reference tracks among many others.
Speaker Options
Hi Wesayso
I thought you might reply, and find in interesting. glad you did.
I was thinking also that your speakers will not need to be raked simply because the line arrays create a good vertical sound stage anyway. He did not mention line arrays, but then I could only watch half of the video so far, and earphones or ear buds tend to cause some temporary loss of hearing for me, hence the move to speakers anyway.
There is so much information out there in videos, its frightening. I will post the ones I feel will be useful. Maybe a thread with useful links for speaker videos?
I find myself thinking what have I got into here, I just wanted a mini hifi system to enjoy my music.
My secret ambition is to build the living room system. I have two large two foot high speakers on a high cupboard at the moment, and it simply is not direct enough for me. The 80s 30 Watt amp also sounds a bit ragged.
So the question is, what sort of speaker arrangement will have that sought after component "WAF" or Wife Acceptance Factor?
I have the following options:
1. On wall speakers with a canvas painting on the front. I hope I wont be asked to move them
2.Floor- Standing speakers
3.Bookshelf speakers on stands
4. Satellite subwoofer systems with the subwoffer mounted low on the wall.
I will run some pictures of speaker setups by the and such by my final authority on How the Living Room Looks and get back to you.
Hi Wesayso
I thought you might reply, and find in interesting. glad you did.
I was thinking also that your speakers will not need to be raked simply because the line arrays create a good vertical sound stage anyway. He did not mention line arrays, but then I could only watch half of the video so far, and earphones or ear buds tend to cause some temporary loss of hearing for me, hence the move to speakers anyway.
There is so much information out there in videos, its frightening. I will post the ones I feel will be useful. Maybe a thread with useful links for speaker videos?
I find myself thinking what have I got into here, I just wanted a mini hifi system to enjoy my music.
My secret ambition is to build the living room system. I have two large two foot high speakers on a high cupboard at the moment, and it simply is not direct enough for me. The 80s 30 Watt amp also sounds a bit ragged.
So the question is, what sort of speaker arrangement will have that sought after component "WAF" or Wife Acceptance Factor?
I have the following options:
1. On wall speakers with a canvas painting on the front. I hope I wont be asked to move them
2.Floor- Standing speakers
3.Bookshelf speakers on stands
4. Satellite subwoofer systems with the subwoffer mounted low on the wall.
I will run some pictures of speaker setups by the and such by my final authority on How the Living Room Looks and get back to you.
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WAF is one of those reasons that people need to be a bit more creative with how they design their speakers. I think that Wesayso's speakers look nice and don't overpower the room. they could have a grill cloth if a wife didn't like the look. Here is a picture of a subwoofer I created over 20 years ago and nobody would realize they were even subs when they were just sitting there. Think outside the box. pun intended.
Attachments
More on WAF
Nicest sub I have seen. Is it wireless? That would take care of ther unsightly monster cables.
I like these ones: https://audioimpact.com/news_and_me...in-wall-or-on-wall-speakers-by-monitor-audio/
Is it a speaker? Or is it art? 3rd Question: will the spouse like it. Also the wires.
There is a way to transmit power wirelessly and sound can be sent through Bluetooth or Wifi . Maybe this is the answer.
Nicest sub I have seen. Is it wireless? That would take care of ther unsightly monster cables.
I like these ones: https://audioimpact.com/news_and_me...in-wall-or-on-wall-speakers-by-monitor-audio/
Is it a speaker? Or is it art? 3rd Question: will the spouse like it. Also the wires.
There is a way to transmit power wirelessly and sound can be sent through Bluetooth or Wifi . Maybe this is the answer.
Bqsic,
they weren't wireless but hiding wires isn't always that hard to accomplish. Its easy enough to hide wire under a carpet if there is one. Today I could do something wireless, don't forget this was over 20 years ago and wireless speakers were more of a concept than a reality. Don't forget even with wireless you still need a power cord.
Thanks for the complement on the styling. The top was made of solid Birdseye Maple and the bottom section around the base was a veneer, the base itself was again solid Maple. I used some leftover Coco Bolo for the insert on the top.
they weren't wireless but hiding wires isn't always that hard to accomplish. Its easy enough to hide wire under a carpet if there is one. Today I could do something wireless, don't forget this was over 20 years ago and wireless speakers were more of a concept than a reality. Don't forget even with wireless you still need a power cord.
Thanks for the complement on the styling. The top was made of solid Birdseye Maple and the bottom section around the base was a veneer, the base itself was again solid Maple. I used some leftover Coco Bolo for the insert on the top.
I like on-walls and I think they can have very high WAF, and still sound pretty good.
It's easy enough to route the wires inside the walls, unless you are stuck like me... houses here are made of concrete. In that case, it's easy enough to extend the boxes (empty) all the way to the floor and route cables that way, or simulate a stand for the on-wall speakers with a tube cut in half stuck to the wall. Like it was said... be creative. There are ways around.
Lately, I like Jordan's designs like these:
It's easy enough to route the wires inside the walls, unless you are stuck like me... houses here are made of concrete. In that case, it's easy enough to extend the boxes (empty) all the way to the floor and route cables that way, or simulate a stand for the on-wall speakers with a tube cut in half stuck to the wall. Like it was said... be creative. There are ways around.
Lately, I like Jordan's designs like these:
How about something like this. 8 Vfia TC9 in a Alu enclosure
Like 1/3 line array.
You cannot see the speakers through the grill cloth it is only when I use blitz they are visible. Last picture is without blitz.
Like 1/3 line array.
You cannot see the speakers through the grill cloth it is only when I use blitz they are visible. Last picture is without blitz.
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Koldby,
Though those could be legitimately called line arrays you would not have the advantages that Wesayso's line arrays would have with the floor and ceiling bounce elimination. So we are back to very similar room response as you would have with most any small enclosure. The extreme length of Wesayso's line arrays are a major contributor to the overall success of his design.
Though those could be legitimately called line arrays you would not have the advantages that Wesayso's line arrays would have with the floor and ceiling bounce elimination. So we are back to very similar room response as you would have with most any small enclosure. The extreme length of Wesayso's line arrays are a major contributor to the overall success of his design.
Those look good, but need to be black with a speaker cloth. Also, I notice that on walls are flat but large, large frontal area - this is to get the required enclosure volume I presume?
On and off the wall
Great stuff, and discrete and elegant. But doesn't aluminium resonate?
Also, 1/3 line array compared to the full floor-to ceiling ones, how does it do?
Here is one off the wall (pun intended) idea I had - a single driver coupled to a planar passive radiator made out of rubber.
Will it work? Anyone tried this? Should save a packet on speakers drivers. Extend it to the ceiling if you want.
How about something like this. 8 Vfia TC9 in a Alu enclosure
Like 1/3 line array.
You cannot see the speakers through the grill cloth it is only when I use blitz they are visible. Last picture is without blitz.
Great stuff, and discrete and elegant. But doesn't aluminium resonate?
Also, 1/3 line array compared to the full floor-to ceiling ones, how does it do?
Here is one off the wall (pun intended) idea I had - a single driver coupled to a planar passive radiator made out of rubber.
Will it work? Anyone tried this? Should save a packet on speakers drivers. Extend it to the ceiling if you want.
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Shorter arrays won't have all the benefits of tall arrays. It might even be a good idea to use power tapering in such a setup. Though I think for this application it could work as is, as it's relatively small. As long as you're in the beam.
Your plans with a single driver and a large passive radiator are cute, but would take an enormous effort to get right, if it can be done at all. I chose sealed for a reason. And another thing: a big part what makes these line arrays special is the number of drivers. It brings down the excursion of each driver. That certainly has advantages.
We're slowly drifting from the line array subject here. BasicHIFI1, maybe take this discussion into a new thread? You do need WAF factor, right? So why not get her involved and make a thread with suggestions and pictures.
She gets to decide shape and placement, your job would be to guard maximum potential needed.
My line arrays were entered as a picture in such a contest before. They lost! They ended up last. Link here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/251815-help-me-design-speaker-my-wife-will-let-me-build-18.html#post3857744
They scored: 1, that meant: "I wouldn't let them into the house". They might have done a little better in their current theme though.
So it is a fact that not everyone likes the look of my speakers, at least to have it in their own home. Personally I'm still very proud how they look and they sort of happened in a form follows function kind of way. I guess it appeals mostly to guys.
What about humidity? It also changes air properties. Sorry if it has already been mentioned.
It will probably be of influence... It definitely was of influence on my enclosure!
Painful to even think about that again...
But a valuable lesson. If I had stuck to my original plan and had done the epoxy/mat instead of trying to preserve the wood finish I might have had troubles later on as well.
So in a way this was a good lesson that more was needed to get to where I am now.
Even if it meant doing this:
But that was not what you were asking...
I have no clear answer to what extend humidity plays a role. I'm sure that it does, to a certain extend. I just know that in my Car I do notice a shift in balance throughout the seasons. At least I think I do.
Painful to even think about that again
...
But a valuable lesson. If I had stuck to my original plan and had done the epoxy/mat instead of trying to preserve the wood finish I might have had troubles later on as well.
So in a way this was a good lesson that more was needed to get to where I am now.
Even if it meant doing this:
But that was not what you were asking
...I have no clear answer to what extend humidity plays a role. I'm sure that it does, to a certain extend. I just know that in my Car I do notice a shift in balance throughout the seasons. At least I think I do
.
Oh yes, but I know that. My main speakers in the stereo system are linesourses with 25 TC 9 in each
These are just leftovers of that project and they perform well as TV speakers.
The main reason for making them, was they looked good and they actually perform surprisingly well. Alu cabs. must be damped by putting asphalt plates or the like on the inside walls, but after that they are very rigid.
I felt I was drifting a little off topic as well. Back to reality!
Thanks for the link "Help me design a speaker that my wife will let me build!" I can't beleive someone actually started such a thread, you can believe that I will read it with interest.
Your speakers look great and are well extremely well constructed by the looks of it. For their size they are rather unobtrusive.
Personally if I ever brought in a pair of floor standers and placed them on the floor, away from the walls, I would have a lot of explaining to do. Floor standers are the weirdest set of speakers I have seen. They really get in the way with kids and cleaning. Actually arrays seem to be the next thing to on wall speakers.
Not sure I could pass this trough the WAF commission but I do like ideas like this!
It's a beauty Kindhornman! As I hate the trend of making everything small and sacrifice good sound, solutions like this one should be looked at i.m.h.o. I realize not every one likes my tall speakers but when watching a movie... you forget all about them. I took the time to setup my ambient speakers as surrounds, so I officially have 4.0 available for movies. It was way more fun than I expected it to be! Very engaging actually. Better than I ever noticed in the THX certified theatres I've been to. It really gets your heart pumping!
It's a beauty Kindhornman! As I hate the trend of making everything small and sacrifice good sound, solutions like this one should be looked at i.m.h.o. I realize not every one likes my tall speakers but when watching a movie... you forget all about them. I took the time to setup my ambient speakers as surrounds, so I officially have 4.0 available for movies. It was way more fun than I expected it to be! Very engaging actually. Better than I ever noticed in the THX certified theatres I've been to. It really gets your heart pumping!
Derek's ("Overkill Audio" on here) on wall line arrays did pretty good in that test! If you could get something like that past the commission it wouldn't be a bad idea. His later designs aren't all floor to ceiling but have a nice modern look and are pretty unobtrusive in a more modern interior.
This was a later design:
Still floor to ceiling but I'm looking for his commercial site... Found it:
More here: CustomInstallAudio
