Merci, daniboun. That would be me!
The PA5 is a nice little amp. I’m using it with a Pi streamer, a Sangean HD20 receiver (oh the humanity!) connected to a pair of Elac DBR 62s. The combination sounds great.
Someone snarked that I have this on a bookshelf which I don’t. I also have a Niles 2150 in the stack, an Aiyima 04, 09 and a Sony STRDH1090. The Sony is connected to a pair of Elac Unifi UF5’s primarily being driven from an Echo Dot for news and background noise. I‘ve been going back and forth as I please with various combinations.
If $350 and a couple of hundred for a DAC aren’t a big deal, go for it. I think most reasonable folks will be happy with the Topping. If $650 or so is more than you want to spend for your amp and DAC system, I say go for an Aiyima 04 with a quality 36V power supply (like a Mean Well) and you’ll probably not hear any difference.
To an earlier point: the PA5 sounds good out of the box. I’m not sure there’s any practical benefit to moding this amp. As the old saying goes, “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!”. (A lesson that took me far too long to learn!)
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Because these are public forums and some measure of civility is necessary in order to encourage proper discourse amongst the participants. Being an expert in one or multiple areas - and I wouldn't pay any mind to what you have to offer either way, based on the way you present yourself - does not give you the right to denigrate others out of hand.
No it was actually an extremely accurate remark on the intentions at ASR. If hypersensitivity is set aside, it becomes clear.
I know this much
But this is a power supply for 8 pcs Is there any cheaper option?
Talk to SamiI know this much
https://micro-audio.com/store/shop/
Please don't create such false rumors. I have no personal friends at Topping. I only communicate with one person there through email when they have something new to test. I have never met that person, nor know anything about him. Any flowery language regarding their product is due to great performance and nothing personal whatsoever.
Topping products garner praise from me because they used closed loop engineering with proper measurements. So it is no surprise that when I measure them, they perform great.
That's not a proper measurement. From the note on top, it says that it only has 20 kHz bandwidth for the test. This means that if you play a 20 kHz tone, none of its harmonics are captured in that graph! That's why it is showing such small value at 20 kHz.
I use 45 khz bandwidth and only show 15 kHz max so that we at least see third harmonic included. A THD+N test like that should never go up to 20 kHz source frequency for this reason. It is completely misleading above 6 to 7 kHz.
ASR tests as you well know, are quite comprehensive. I do not just post one number and walk away. Even the dashboard where SINAD comes from has the full FFT spectrum so that the distortion and noise floor can be analyzed. The fact that SINAD has achieved notoriety doesn't mean that the reviews are all that, and that we only discuss that one number there. Very disappointed to see this kind of commentary from you PMA given that you are a senior member at ASR.
The person you are agreeing with above doesn't even understand what the measurements are that he is talking about. So if you want to agree with someone, I suggest picking someone other than Mike who is trying to sell his own hobby builds with little knowledge of electronics, signal processing and measurements.
They could argue otherwise: measuring harmonics after 20 kHz bandwidth is misleading as they are inaudible.
Amir,
I‘d be a tad insulted, as well, that your integrity is being questioned. Though we’ve certainly never met (though I, too, worked for Sony in the early 90’s when the VaIo was introduced and our paths may have actually crossed in San Jose), you impress me as being a stand-up guy.
Let me me ask this: do you think JY may be gaming your tests? By sending a PA 5 to you, directly, could the test unit be a cherry? Do you think that JY really designed this unit for overall fidelity or to be certain he aced your tests, knowing, full well, that a glowing review would spike his sales (and possibly put a new Ferrrari under his Christmas tree?)
If I need to send you my PA5 for testing to confirm that what he sent you wasn’t a one off, I’m willing to take one for the team. You know how to PM me over at ASR. It’s not that I can’t spare it for a couple of weeks.
Have you ever seen a manufacturer go to such lengths to obfuscate his components, like laser etching the chip numbers and hiding the op amps (or whatever is in the little black package at the front of the PC board?)
The guys over here are far more technical than I, so I’m not about to get into a debate on the technical merits, but my BS alarms go off when I see the weird gyrations JY has gone to with this product.
Your thoughts, please.
Hi,
This doesn't seem the ideal place to ask this, but I can't think anywhere better. I'll delete/move as requested.
I've currently got a pair of monitor audio studio 15 speakers, the best I've heard. However I've got amp troubles and could use your advise of old kit vs new.
The best amp I've heard was the rotel rb-991, unfortunately it's blowing the right amp board on power up =(
So I'm using my rotel rb-993 at the moment, it's not the same.
I'm weighing up repairing the rb-991 vs a new amp like the topping. (I'm currently using the d30 dac which impressed me).
At what stage does repairing older high end gear lose its value on new kit.
That d30 dac destroys the tag mclaren dac and cost only a few percent.
Will the topping Pa5 do the same or have power amplifiers advanced less and the old kit is still good?
Thanks
This doesn't seem the ideal place to ask this, but I can't think anywhere better. I'll delete/move as requested.
I've currently got a pair of monitor audio studio 15 speakers, the best I've heard. However I've got amp troubles and could use your advise of old kit vs new.
The best amp I've heard was the rotel rb-991, unfortunately it's blowing the right amp board on power up =(
So I'm using my rotel rb-993 at the moment, it's not the same.
I'm weighing up repairing the rb-991 vs a new amp like the topping. (I'm currently using the d30 dac which impressed me).
At what stage does repairing older high end gear lose its value on new kit.
That d30 dac destroys the tag mclaren dac and cost only a few percent.
Will the topping Pa5 do the same or have power amplifiers advanced less and the old kit is still good?
Thanks
@inteificio
If it can help: I was able to compare a (not modified) Aiyima A04 to a recent decent mid-level ($600) Onkyo integrated amplifier (all other elements identical). I can say that the A04 was close to, but not as good as the Onkyo re listening impressions. Onkyo has better slam, better sound stage (depth) and is less harsh, while remaining quite neutral with no particular emphasis. Some kind of maturity, in particular on complex music, the A04 lacks. But price ratio is 1/10 for A04, so VVG value for money anymway. (Once the A04 modified, the Onlyo is beaten, but this is another story).
Reading TheWalkMan above who owns both, it seems there is not so much sonic differences between A04 and Topping PA5.
Then @TheWalkman
Would you please share with us more on your PA5 listening impressions, vs the 04 ? No need to conclude if any is better that the other Just curious about differences you could hear, if any, re frequency response, details, sound stage (height, width, depth), speed, warmth, etc.
Have fun !
If it can help: I was able to compare a (not modified) Aiyima A04 to a recent decent mid-level ($600) Onkyo integrated amplifier (all other elements identical). I can say that the A04 was close to, but not as good as the Onkyo re listening impressions. Onkyo has better slam, better sound stage (depth) and is less harsh, while remaining quite neutral with no particular emphasis. Some kind of maturity, in particular on complex music, the A04 lacks. But price ratio is 1/10 for A04, so VVG value for money anymway. (Once the A04 modified, the Onlyo is beaten, but this is another story).
Reading TheWalkMan above who owns both, it seems there is not so much sonic differences between A04 and Topping PA5.
Then @TheWalkman
Would you please share with us more on your PA5 listening impressions, vs the 04 ? No need to conclude if any is better that the other
Just curious about differences you could hear, if any, re frequency response, details, sound stage (height, width, depth), speed, warmth, etc.Have fun !
Why do harmonics that you can’t hear matter? Try the 2 tone 18/19 kHz test. Which is part of the standard test basket for a reason. But since you don’t understand it, you leave it out. Unfortunately it takes more than just starting a forum and buying an analyzer to understand audio equipment.
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Harmonics that you cannot hear matter as it shows you a window into the amplifiers gain and feedback structure. I, for one, am very interested in seeing how class D amplifiers perform when the measurement bandwidth isn't limited to 20kHz. The reason for this is because it's what separates the wheat from the chaff.
The absolute best non switching amplifiers will show very little rise in distortion as frequency increases out to 20kHz and this is when measured with 100kHz bandwidth. Class D, on the other hand, usually falls to pieces here.
Measuring class D with 20kHz bandwidth sweeps stuff under the rug and presents things in a far more pleasing light than is actual reality.
Anyone can design an amplifier that has extremely good performance at 1kHz. This isn't a particularly interesting figure of merit when comparing high performance amplifiers. What is interesting is what happens from 1kHz to 20Khz with 100kHz bandwidth as this is where all the interesting stuff happens. This shows how the designer has tried to squeeze as much performance as possible out of the limited bandwidth of the open loop system and then the associated phase margins of the closed loop system. In other words have they done anything different to the competition.
Can we hear a lot of this? No. But that's academic when it comes to the state-of-the-art. These differences, and how they've been achieved, are what's interesting and what you should be interested in looking at. Of course you need to know why this is interesting in the first place for it to make any sense.
The absolute best non switching amplifiers will show very little rise in distortion as frequency increases out to 20kHz and this is when measured with 100kHz bandwidth. Class D, on the other hand, usually falls to pieces here.
Measuring class D with 20kHz bandwidth sweeps stuff under the rug and presents things in a far more pleasing light than is actual reality.
Anyone can design an amplifier that has extremely good performance at 1kHz. This isn't a particularly interesting figure of merit when comparing high performance amplifiers. What is interesting is what happens from 1kHz to 20Khz with 100kHz bandwidth as this is where all the interesting stuff happens. This shows how the designer has tried to squeeze as much performance as possible out of the limited bandwidth of the open loop system and then the associated phase margins of the closed loop system. In other words have they done anything different to the competition.
Can we hear a lot of this? No. But that's academic when it comes to the state-of-the-art. These differences, and how they've been achieved, are what's interesting and what you should be interested in looking at. Of course you need to know why this is interesting in the first place for it to make any sense.