Vacuum Tube SPICE Models

kees52 · 2015-03-18 4:59 pm

jmack said:
Kees,

What version of Multisim do you have?

I have version 13.

regards

cogsncogs · 2015-03-18 6:03 pm

jmack said:
The Windows' (8.1 and XP) "Compressed (zipped) Folders Extraction Wizard" says "The compressed (zipped) folder is empty". Is there something else I should be using to unzip it? 😕
Thanks Again! 🙂

I zipped it from my Linux machine and apparently there is a path issue (leading slash), so I went through some convoluted extraction procedure on Windows 7 using 7zip to extract it twice. So here is a compatible Windoze zip file.

Sorry about that 😀

cogsncogs · 2015-03-18 6:34 pm

Here's a few more triode models:

cogsncogs · 2015-03-18 7:15 pm

jmack said:
Has anyone been able to get the Ayumi models to work in MULTISIM? "DC sweep analysis" works great but the DC Operating point doesn't converge.😕

I've had similar problems with the Ayumi models in Micro Cap. Specifically the BM1 line: "(URAMP(V(G2,K))+1e-10)". Changing 1e-10 to 1e-03 allowed Micro Cap to converge.

kees52 · 2015-03-18 7:26 pm

Do someone has a 6J51P penthode model?

thanks.

kees

jmack · 2015-03-18 11:33 pm

That didn't help - thanks for the suggestion though! 😕

cogsncogs said:
I've had similar problems with the Ayumi models in Micro Cap. Specifically the BM1 line: "(URAMP(V(G2,K))+1e-10)". Changing 1e-10 to 1e-03 allowed Micro Cap to converge.

jmack · 2015-03-18 11:55 pm

Thanks for all the models! Here’s how yours (and several others’) compare to the Philips ECC82 data sheet (http://www.drtube.com/datasheets/ecc82-philips1954.pdf). Your Mazda is almost as close as Ayumi’s. I used the 3F4 version – would you expect there to be any differences with the others? 😀

cogsncogs said:
Here's a few more triode models:

artosalo · 2015-03-19 12:31 pm

I have not managed to find a working tube model for soviet 6P41S yet.

I have this:

.SUBCKT PENT_6P41S 1 2 3 4 ; P G K G2
+ PARAMS: CCG=3P CGP=1.4P CCP=1.9P RGI=2000
+ MU=91.184 EX=1.3719 KG1=275.0 KG2=4500.0 KP=10.65 KVB=45.0 ; Vp_MAX=420.0 Ip_M
AX=0.256 Vg_step=1.0
*--------------------------------------------------
RE1 7 0 1MEG ; DUMMY SO NODE 7 HAS 2 CONNECTIONS
E1 7 0 VALUE= ; E1 BREAKS UP LONG EQUATION FOR G1.
+{V(4,3)/KP*LOG(1+EXP((1/MU+V(2,3)/V(4,3))*KP))}
G1 1 3 VALUE={(PWR(V(7),EX)+PWRS(V(7),EX))/KG1*ATAN(V(1,3)/KVB)}
G2 4 3 VALUE={(EXP(EX*(LOG((V(4,3)/MU)+V(2,3)))))/KG2}
RCP 1 3 1G ; FOR CONVERGENCE
C1 2 3 {CCG} ; CATHODE-GRID 1
C2 1 2 {CPG1} ; GRID 1-PLATE
C3 1 3 {CCP} ; CATHODE-PLATE
R1 2 5 {RGI} ; FOR GRID CURRENT
D3 5 3 DX ; FOR GRID CURRENT
.MODEL DX D(IS=1N RS=1 CJO=10PF TT=1N)
.ENDS

But it gives an error:

cogsncogs · 2015-03-19 6:12 pm

artosalo said:
I have not managed to find a working tube model for soviet 6P41S yet.

I have this:

.SUBCKT PENT_6P41S 1 2 3 4 ; P G K G2
+ PARAMS: CCG=3P CGP=1.4P CCP=1.9P RGI=2000
+ MU=91.184 EX=1.3719 KG1=275.0 KG2=4500.0 KP=10.65 KVB=45.0 ; Vp_MAX=420.0 Ip_M
AX=0.256 Vg_step=1.0
*--------------------------------------------------
But it gives an error:

The parameters "AX=0.256 Vg_step=1.0" are on a new line, needs to be commented out as there are no corresponding 'nodes' in the subckt. Probably just a word wrap problem. 😉 Also the nodes were not in the correct order for the tetrode symbol in LTspice

Corrected below:

Code:

.SUBCKT PENT_6P41S 1 4 2 3 ; P G2 G K
+ PARAMS: CCG=3P CGP=1.4P CCP=1.9P RGI=2000
+ MU=91.184 EX=1.3719 KG1=275.0 KG2=4500.0 KP=10.65 KVB=45.0 ; Vp_MAX=420.0 Ip_M AX=0.256 Vg_step=1.0
*--------------------------------------------------
RE1 7 0 1MEG ; DUMMY SO NODE 7 HAS 2 CONNECTIONS
E1 7 0 VALUE= ; E1 BREAKS UP LONG EQUATION FOR G1.
+{V(4,3)/KP*LOG(1+EXP((1/MU+V(2,3)/V(4,3))*KP))}
G1 1 3 VALUE={(PWR(V(7),EX)+PWRS(V(7),EX))/KG1*ATAN(V(1,3)/KVB)}
G2 4 3 VALUE={(EXP(EX*(LOG((V(4,3)/MU)+V(2,3)))))/KG2}
RCP 1 3 1G ; FOR CONVERGENCE
C1 2 3 {CCG} ; CATHODE-GRID 1
C2 1 2 {CPG1} ; GRID 1-PLATE
C3 1 3 {CCP} ; CATHODE-PLATE
R1 2 5 {RGI} ; FOR GRID CURRENT
D3 5 3 DX ; FOR GRID CURRENT
.MODEL DX D(IS=1N RS=1 CJO=10PF TT=1N)
.ENDS

artosalo · 2015-03-19 6:21 pm

Thanks.

I tested that and got the following errors:

cogsncogs · 2015-03-19 6:31 pm

jmack said:
Thanks for all the models! Here’s how yours (and several others’) compare to the Philips ECC82 data sheet (http://www.drtube.com/datasheets/ecc82-philips1954.pdf). Your Mazda is almost as close as Ayumi’s. I used the 3F4 version – would you expect there to be any differences with the others? 😀

Barring syntax errors (as long as your simulator and the model you're trying to use speak the same language) there should be no difference as to what flavour of spice you use.

cogsncogs · 2015-03-19 6:46 pm

artosalo said:
Thanks.

I tested that and got the following errors:

Sorry that was my fault, I should have tested in LTspice before posting. 😱

The node names in the params line must match the nodes in the subckt.

Code:

.SUBCKT PENT_6P41S 1 4 2 3 ; P G2 G K
+ PARAMS: CCG=3P CGP=1.4P CCP=1.9P RGI=2000
+ MU=91.184 EX=1.3719 KG1=275.0 KG2=4500.0 KP=10.65 KVB=45.0 ; Vp_MAX=420.0 Ip_M AX=0.256 Vg_step=1.0
*--------------------------------------------------
RE1 7 0 1MEG ; DUMMY SO NODE 7 HAS 2 CONNECTIONS
E1 7 0 VALUE= ; E1 BREAKS UP LONG EQUATION FOR G1.
+{V(4,3)/KP*LOG(1+EXP((1/MU+V(2,3)/V(4,3))*KP))}
G1 1 3 VALUE={(PWR(V(7),EX)+PWRS(V(7),EX))/KG1*ATAN(V(1,3)/KVB)}
G2 4 3 VALUE={(EXP(EX*(LOG((V(4,3)/MU)+V(2,3)))))/KG2}
RCP 1 3 1G ; FOR CONVERGENCE
C1 2 3 {CCG} ; CATHODE-GRID 1
C2 1 2 {CGP} ; GRID 1-PLATE
C3 1 3 {CCP} ; CATHODE-PLATE
R1 2 5 {RGI} ; FOR GRID CURRENT
D3 5 3 DX ; FOR GRID CURRENT
.MODEL DX D(IS=1N RS=1 CJO=10PF TT=1N)
.ENDS

jmack · 2015-03-19 7:18 pm

Do you use 3F4 or 3F5?

cogsncogs said:
Barring syntax errors (as long as your simulator and the model you're trying to use speak the same language) there should be no difference as to what flavour of spice you use.

ruffrecords · 2015-03-19 8:10 pm

Ray Waters said:
Ian,

Have you compiled a personal tube library based on Curve Captor models that you would be willing to share? I design with only a handful of mainstream tubes so my personal triode library consists primarily of the 12A*7 family, the 6DJ8/6922, and the 6SN7/6CG7, all based on the Ayumi model. These have proven to be accurate enough for my purposes but I also like to have another model to run simulations against to "get a second opinion" when the results don't look quite right.

Thanks.

I mainly use this one that I found on the internet.

Cheers

Ian

Ray Waters · 2015-03-19 8:26 pm

ruffrecords said:
I mainly use this one that I found on the internet.

Cheers

Ian

Thanks, I have that library too. These models do produce results very similar to the Ayumi models and include the triodes I use most often, so I suppose I really do have what I need for the most part. I'm always looking for something better, though. 🙂

cogsncogs · 2015-03-19 8:56 pm

jmack said:
Do you use 3F4 or 3F5?

There's no preference really, I choose what will work for a specific simulator. I use mainly Micro Cap and LTspice. I have tinkered around a bit with TI's Tina.

jmack · 2015-03-19 10:41 pm

kees,

I’ve attached two Multisim circuits for doing DC Sweep analyses with cogsncogs’ models from this forum. One is his 3F4 Mazda 12AU7 (Dual Triode) Model and the other is his 6P41S (Pentode) model (I modified that one by replacing LOG with LN to keep Multisim from whining). Note that it doesn’t seem to draw any screen current though!

Depending on the version of Multisim 13 you have, you should be able to right click on the tube in the each circuit and “Save component to database” of your choosing. I’d recommend using these triode and pentode models rather than the ones in Multisim’s Master Database because Multisim’s model-symbol pin mapping is different from everyone else’s.

I’ve also attached details of the procedure that I use to generate new models. Please let me know how it works and/or what corrections it needs.😉

Jmack

kees52 said:
I need tube models for multisim, do have someone experience to change them for multisim or now how to let them work.

thanks

kees

cogsncogs · 2015-03-20 1:05 am

jmack said:
kees,

I’ve attached two Multisim circuits for doing DC Sweep analyses with cogsncogs’ models from this forum. One is his 3F4 Mazda 12AU7 (Dual Triode) Model and the other is his 6P41S (Pentode) model (I modified that one by replacing LOG with LN to keep Multisim from whining). Note that it doesn’t seem to draw any screen current though!

Jmack

I did this really quickly, seems to be fairly close for screen current and I can't read Cyrillic very well... 😀

Code:

.SUBCKT 6P41S 1 4 2 3 ; P G2 G K
+ PARAMS: CCG=3P CGP=1.4P CCP=1.9P RGI=2000
+ MU=91.184 EX=1.3719 KG1=275.0 KG2=4500.0 KP=10.65 KVB=45.0 ; Vp_MAX=420.0 Ip_M AX=0.256 Vg_step=1.0
*--------------------------------------------------
RE1 7 0 1MEG ; DUMMY SO NODE 7 HAS 2 CONNECTIONS
E1 7 0 VALUE= ; E1 BREAKS UP LONG EQUATION FOR G1.
+{V(4,3)/KP*LN(1+EXP((1/MU+V(2,3)/V(4,3))*KP))}
G1 1 3 VALUE={(PWR(V(7),EX)+PWRS(V(7),EX))/KG1*ATAN(V(1,3)/KVB)}
*G2 4 3 VALUE={(EXP(EX*(LN((V(4,3)/MU)+V(2,3)))))/KG2}
G2 4 3 VALUE={(PWR(V(7),EX)+PWRS(V(7),EX))/KG2*(2.5708-ATAN(V(1,3)/KVB))}
RCP 1 3 1G ; FOR CONVERGENCE
C1 2 3 {CCG} ; CATHODE-GRID 1
C2 1 2 {CGP} ; GRID 1-PLATE
C3 1 3 {CCP} ; CATHODE-PLATE
R1 2 5 {RGI} ; FOR GRID CURRENT
D3 5 3 DX ; FOR GRID CURRENT
.MODEL DX D(IS=1N RS=1 CJO=10PF TT=1N)
.ENDS

jmack · 2015-03-20 1:48 am

Got screen! 😀

cogsncogs said:

I did this really quickly, seems to be fairly close for screen current and I can't read Cyrillic very well... 😀

Code:

.SUBCKT 6P41S 1 4 2 3 ; P G2 G K
+ PARAMS: CCG=3P CGP=1.4P CCP=1.9P RGI=2000
+ MU=91.184 EX=1.3719 KG1=275.0 KG2=4500.0 KP=10.65 KVB=45.0 ; Vp_MAX=420.0 Ip_M AX=0.256 Vg_step=1.0
*--------------------------------------------------
RE1 7 0 1MEG ; DUMMY SO NODE 7 HAS 2 CONNECTIONS
E1 7 0 VALUE= ; E1 BREAKS UP LONG EQUATION FOR G1.
+{V(4,3)/KP*LN(1+EXP((1/MU+V(2,3)/V(4,3))*KP))}
G1 1 3 VALUE={(PWR(V(7),EX)+PWRS(V(7),EX))/KG1*ATAN(V(1,3)/KVB)}
*G2 4 3 VALUE={(EXP(EX*(LN((V(4,3)/MU)+V(2,3)))))/KG2}
G2 4 3 VALUE={(PWR(V(7),EX)+PWRS(V(7),EX))/KG2*(2.5708-ATAN(V(1,3)/KVB))}
RCP 1 3 1G ; FOR CONVERGENCE
C1 2 3 {CCG} ; CATHODE-GRID 1
C2 1 2 {CGP} ; GRID 1-PLATE
C3 1 3 {CCP} ; CATHODE-PLATE
R1 2 5 {RGI} ; FOR GRID CURRENT
D3 5 3 DX ; FOR GRID CURRENT
.MODEL DX D(IS=1N RS=1 CJO=10PF TT=1N)
.ENDS

cogsncogs · 2015-03-20 1:52 am

Plate current way off in my last post. ^^^ Would be better if someone made a new one from scratch. 🙁 I may tomorrow, but no time tonight.

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