Sure, buy locally if you can, but there's only a few instances where you need Shipito. Getting a part from Madisound, PE etc doesn't require an onshipper and it's very rare that I've used them. I've been importing/exporting audio and MI and MI parts since the late 90s and car parts before that from all over Asia, Europe and NA so I have a lot of experience with it. Post move I have several thousands in parts coming for projects from the EU and US and a guitar from the UK and unless something has changed radically in the past few months, don't expect any more difficulty than in the past. The interesting one will be the guitar and bass parts I have coming from Brazil as I've never ordered from there before. As they're metal and not on the CITES list, I expect I will just get the usual email when it lands, pay the GST online through Fedex and get it at my door a few days later.
My point was, that if you find a project you like, and some of the parts aren't available locally, just mail order them, it's usually no more hassle than buying a book MO from Dymocks.
Jef Bagby's designs are also discussed in his facebookgroup https://www.facebook.com/groups/DIYLoudspeakerProjecPad
And a part of the price goes to his family as support as he is gone due to a covid infection very early in the pandemy. His legacy is maintained by his friend Javad Shadzi now trough that facebook group. Maybe contact him on an arragment.
And a part of the price goes to his family as support as he is gone due to a covid infection very early in the pandemy. His legacy is maintained by his friend Javad Shadzi now trough that facebook group. Maybe contact him on an arragment.
Even local suppliers need to pay shipping, and it shows. Not that I would discourage anyone from buying locally. It's misleading when shipping can cost as much as the product.
You want a box speaker and preferrably a flat-pack, there's only so much you can expect.
By way of comparison, here's the raw driver cost for the Tritrix MTM as an example: conversion worked out at $A1.4 to the US$:
parts from local supplier: $A279 plus $10 post. Crossover parts about $130 using good quality poly caps and air core inductors.
from Parts Express: $A220 plus ?? post. Given that two tweeters only were going to be $A65, rather a lot? I tried to get an estimate from PE but the check out web page wouldn't cooperate...I also gave up trying to price the crossover parts, too clunky!
That said, before US post prices went through the roof and the A$ went further down the toilet, I got some very good deals from PE: a spare Morel CAT 378 'open box' tweeter for A$80, pair Peerless DA25 tweeters A$65, not bad at all. All including post, none were locally available. The Peerless tweeters are used in Wolf's Zingers.
In terms of 'sound stage', I find the Tritrix and Classix II all very good, with the latter producing the 'biggest' sound. Sometimes the sound seems like it's coming from outside the speakers, great for orchestral music. Much depends on the recording and room, of course.
To my ears the Tritrix (vented, not the TLs, which have more bass) have the edge on jazz and classics, the Classix have more 'oomph' for blues and pop/rock. Both sound better than anything retail I've heard for that price - my cabinet efforts are, however, amateurish.
There's also Paul's Classix 2.5 which I'd like to build one day, if I have a reason to do so. Higher sound output and reportedly better mid-range than the Classix II. Local driver cost about $300, crossover around $200 as it has more parts than the Tritrix.
I haven't heard a Jeff Bagby or Wolf design, so can't comment, but they also receive excellent reviews.
It took me a good year or so deciding what to build as my first project and I was knocked out by ts quality and value: take your time, keep asking questions and good luck
Geoff
parts from local supplier: $A279 plus $10 post. Crossover parts about $130 using good quality poly caps and air core inductors.
from Parts Express: $A220 plus ?? post. Given that two tweeters only were going to be $A65, rather a lot? I tried to get an estimate from PE but the check out web page wouldn't cooperate...I also gave up trying to price the crossover parts, too clunky!
That said, before US post prices went through the roof and the A$ went further down the toilet, I got some very good deals from PE: a spare Morel CAT 378 'open box' tweeter for A$80, pair Peerless DA25 tweeters A$65, not bad at all. All including post, none were locally available. The Peerless tweeters are used in Wolf's Zingers.
In terms of 'sound stage', I find the Tritrix and Classix II all very good, with the latter producing the 'biggest' sound. Sometimes the sound seems like it's coming from outside the speakers, great for orchestral music. Much depends on the recording and room, of course.
To my ears the Tritrix (vented, not the TLs, which have more bass) have the edge on jazz and classics, the Classix have more 'oomph' for blues and pop/rock. Both sound better than anything retail I've heard for that price - my cabinet efforts are, however, amateurish.
There's also Paul's Classix 2.5 which I'd like to build one day, if I have a reason to do so. Higher sound output and reportedly better mid-range than the Classix II. Local driver cost about $300, crossover around $200 as it has more parts than the Tritrix.
I haven't heard a Jeff Bagby or Wolf design, so can't comment, but they also receive excellent reviews.
It took me a good year or so deciding what to build as my first project and I was knocked out by ts quality and value: take your time, keep asking questions and good luck
Geoff
😆.... long version: The transmission line iteration from Xrk971 (often called X. here) Fast design with the 3" scanspeak 10f/8424 and the non less famous Dayton 8" Rs225, also a 8 ohms....😊
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To add to the discussion of buying locally… by doing so it improves the long term possibilities of future supplies. It may cost more in the short-term, but long term drivers will ikely be cheaper.
dave
dave
If I were living in Australia, due to the price of some drivers because the taxes, I will lurk towards local ER Audio 505 kit... ESL + Midwoofer.
A less obvious, but no less important factor in the project choice is, as mentioned above, SAF. Some designs, such as Paul Carmody's Tarkus, will struggle in that department, regardless of how good they sound, as their cabinets are rather imposing.
The Dayton 'Classic' range of woofers (DC130, DC160 etc) look pretty dowdy compared with, say the Dayton Reference series with their snazzy black aluminium phase plugs and cool looking cones. These have been used in many projects such as Paul's "Amigas".
You can of course make speaker grilles to hide the drivers, but that adds $$.
So, even more to think about, sorry.....
Geoff
The Dayton 'Classic' range of woofers (DC130, DC160 etc) look pretty dowdy compared with, say the Dayton Reference series with their snazzy black aluminium phase plugs and cool looking cones. These have been used in many projects such as Paul's "Amigas".
You can of course make speaker grilles to hide the drivers, but that adds $$.
So, even more to think about, sorry.....
Geoff
His legacy is maintained by those that knew him personally, and Jeff and I knew each other quite well for almost 20 years. I would say he was my speaker mentor and friend as well. Javad is only one of those many people. Some of Jeff's designs are not even public to his earthen friends as they were his intellectual property. As such, not even Javad or myself know all the details that may be required.
We non-designers in the DIY community should be extremely appreciative of those who spend countless hours and $$$ to develop and perfect a project, then choose to share their work and offer advice.
I've always offered to send people some CDs as a very small token of that appreciation. I've also respected their IP by not sharing their designs when asked, as I have been several times.
Back to the original question, what size is your room and at what volume(s) do you listen? Both will affect your options. Ours is about 10 x 13 metres with 3.5 metre ceilings, but our MTMs with sub fill the space with ease with the volume knob seldom going over four, unless it's Jimi Hendrix' 'Machine Gun' or 'Voodoo Chile'. However, when I've tried the Classix II or other 6" two ways in that room they run out of off puff on some music; of course, they're not designed for that size of room anyway.
What's your main source material: CDs, LPs, streaming, or tape? Is most of your collection well recorded and mixed, or less so?
Even more questions to think about but the more you do, the clearer your options should be.
Geoff
I've always offered to send people some CDs as a very small token of that appreciation. I've also respected their IP by not sharing their designs when asked, as I have been several times.
Back to the original question, what size is your room and at what volume(s) do you listen? Both will affect your options. Ours is about 10 x 13 metres with 3.5 metre ceilings, but our MTMs with sub fill the space with ease with the volume knob seldom going over four, unless it's Jimi Hendrix' 'Machine Gun' or 'Voodoo Chile'. However, when I've tried the Classix II or other 6" two ways in that room they run out of off puff on some music; of course, they're not designed for that size of room anyway.
What's your main source material: CDs, LPs, streaming, or tape? Is most of your collection well recorded and mixed, or less so?
Even more questions to think about but the more you do, the clearer your options should be.
Geoff
It would simply have been easier to state that in the first place. I dislike widerangers and rarely visit the forum, as I'm sure is the case for many others, so why, without a link, would anyone assume that others know what it is?
I do agree cause as a stranger with a low level of english understanding it is often a nightmare when I try to find abreviations meaning.
But do understand it is natural evolution process. You know how it is working.... due to smaller screens, bigger eyes and smaller hands, because of a hazardous mutation, the ones that answered to the smartphone alert survived. The mutation was kept into the survivor group that helped to comunicate fastly with eachother against zombie attacks, giving them a survival advantage. And now youngs have very small fingers and write on their Apple watch as a consequence... How sad... they even have no ears anymore as they became bats !
But do understand it is natural evolution process. You know how it is working.... due to smaller screens, bigger eyes and smaller hands, because of a hazardous mutation, the ones that answered to the smartphone alert survived. The mutation was kept into the survivor group that helped to comunicate fastly with eachother against zombie attacks, giving them a survival advantage. And now youngs have very small fingers and write on their Apple watch as a consequence... How sad... they even have no ears anymore as they became bats !
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Actually I remember that I did buy a lot of gear direct from Madisound and Parts Express. But when it came to big/heavy stuff, or from suppliers who didn't ship overseas, Shipito was the only way.
Buying locally is going to restrict my choices, but as Geoff Millar pointed out, shipping from the States to Australia can easily double the cost of the project.
Some of the Australian suppliers are relatively local to me, so pick-up might be an option.
I've now realised that having a flat-pack cabinet is a silly option. I am still capable of doing most of the cutting and assembly, and can get rebates and rounded edges routed locally.
They look like they would sound great (with a woofer box), but in my house, the WAF would be terrible. 😉
The wife is used to seeing drivers (I never bothered with grilles on any of my speakers).
I'm not sure if she would prefer the drivers being featured, or whether she would prefer black cones blending into a dark baffle (like I've always built).
My initial plan was for stand mounted, but I'm starting to think that tall slim towers might have a slightly better WAF.
This would give me the option of perhaps a TL, although I've never built one, and don't know the pro and cons (apart from improved bass).
In the past, if I wanted a bit more bottom end, I went ported.
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The living/kitchen room is 6.2 x 5.2 x 2.425m (82.7 cub.m). This equates to 18' x 20'4" x 8' (2927 cub.ft).
All CDs these days. Many years ago I foolishly (and very niavely) put my pristine LP collection up for sale at $2 each. A couple of years later, I walked into a LP shop and saw similar LPs in a lot worse condition, going for $35+.😢