Update. Bumped the acoustic stuff to 65g. 5 g at a time. Actually helped damp bass and tame the room modes.
I set speaker on its head on a carpeted floor and methodically dropped tiny wisps of angel hair like bits of acoustastuff into rear slot while giving the speaker a shake and tilting it side to side back to front. Then gently tamped down with a washer on a string. Took photos with cell phone as I went to monitor progress.
Wide angle. Stuffing is about 9-10 inches “below” (speaker upside down) rear slot.
If you’re in a small room, I’d recommend starting with 50 and then add 5 g at a time until happy.
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My Mar-KenM10.2T is ready 
Thank you Dave for your plans. It was not easy to realize, but I did it with joy. Here are some photos of the workflow and the finishing result. After 100 hours it will be possible to say exactly how they play. I listen to the "Last Testament" of Dan McCafferty at low volume, impressions are beautiful.
Thank you Dave for your plans. It was not easy to realize, but I did it with joy. Here are some photos of the workflow and the finishing result. After 100 hours it will be possible to say exactly how they play. I listen to the "Last Testament" of Dan McCafferty at low volume, impressions are beautiful.
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Thanks to these members and some friends who I have constantly asked for advice I'm embarking on building my ultimate mark audio driver build. Spent way too long choosing the panel grain, I'm planning on doing a shellac top coat to bring out the Baltic birch. Here's a progress photo, dry fit at the moment. Maop 10.2 drivers should arrive mid Jan.
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The hardest thing is to survive these first 100 hours of listening, so as not to add volume.
I'm very satisfied with this speakers. I had to make stands for them.
Thank you Dave for a wonderful plan and everyone for mental support. It inspires.
Most likely, my Grundig 1500a will retire. But now I have fears that one of my children in my absence will ruin new speakers by listening something with low bass.
It is about putting a filter to limit Xmax by 30 Hertz. Does anyone use a restrictive filter for these speakers?
I will use these speakers with Denon PMA-1500RII + Dac SMSL-9n + RPI4 (Moodeaudio).
Best regards.
I'm very satisfied with this speakers.
I had to make stands for them.Thank you Dave for a wonderful plan and everyone for mental support. It inspires.
Most likely, my Grundig 1500a will retire. But now I have fears that one of my children in my absence will ruin new speakers by listening something with low bass.
It is about putting a filter to limit Xmax by 30 Hertz. Does anyone use a restrictive filter for these speakers?
I will use these speakers with Denon PMA-1500RII + Dac SMSL-9n + RPI4 (Moodeaudio).
Best regards.
Hello!
I've been listening a lot to Alpair 10Maop in miniOnken boxes. Have mostly listened to them 1 m from the back wall.
Tested them near the back wall today. The drawers about 10cm from the back wall. The sound got darker there. Heavier sound. More body. More support for the base. Perhaps a sound that many prefer. The downside is that there was a little less space.
I've been listening a lot to Alpair 10Maop in miniOnken boxes. Have mostly listened to them 1 m from the back wall.
Tested them near the back wall today. The drawers about 10cm from the back wall. The sound got darker there. Heavier sound. More body. More support for the base. Perhaps a sound that many prefer. The downside is that there was a little less space.
Speakers are finished. Certainly the hardest things I've made so far. Some imperfections which my ocd will just have to love with. I really like the shellac finish and the wood grain. I did around 8 to 10 coats. I lost count. But that only took about 30 minutes as it dries so fast. They sound amazing already, now to break them in. Thanks to my buddies Stu and Mitch for the help and support during the build. Certainly would have pulled my hair out if no help!
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Any chance you know of a summary of those differences? Or could scribble one down? I'm contemplating a music + HT build using Poplar/Smaller Hardwood or Silbury/Maeshow as L+R and phantom centre, then microTower HT Appendix as satellites and ceiling speakers, so trying to learn what I can about the different options
colinb4987,
Planet 10's comment in post # 509 of this thread:
"In terms of bass extension, FHXL>Pensil>>Scott’s simple reflex>Mar-Ken10"
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/alpair-maop-10-2.378493/page-26#post-7516761
And in post # 517, he commented "bigger differences in gain, balance, and character":
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/alpair-maop-10-2.378493/page-26#post-7517096
In addition to the difference in bass extension (how deep/low the bass goes), there are other difference that can be heard/perceived with different cabinets (but using the same drivers). For example, the FHXL will probably throw a deeper soundstage vs other designs, while a Mar-Ken10 is likely to give the impression of better imaging (less diffraction) due to the wide chamfers on the edges of the baffle. Scott designed the Pensil to sacrifice some of the low end extension in favor of more gain through the power range (50-120 Hz?); the high aspect ports that P10 uses for his Mar-Ken designs tend to give a more articulate bass vs a standard bass reflex cabinet, but sacrifice a few Hz at the low end. These differences can be subtle, and can vary from room to room... the room can influence the sound a lot, both at the higher frequencies and lower frequencies. Depending on the design, the speaker can interact with the room differently, and what the listener hears/perceives can vary.
In HT application there are members who enjoy fulfilling experiences with wide-band (aka full-range) drivers, though I am more inclined to multiway designs nowadays (can be driven harder, more dynamic range)... with HT you will be using a sub-woofer, so there will be less burden on the wide-band units. With wide-band drivers there tends to be some peaking in some of the mid frequencies, and the vocal intelligibility tends to be a strong point in/around the center seat. The limited dispersion characteristics might lead to quicker drop off with seats that are further away from the center.
Planet 10's comment in post # 509 of this thread:
"In terms of bass extension, FHXL>Pensil>>Scott’s simple reflex>Mar-Ken10"
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/alpair-maop-10-2.378493/page-26#post-7516761
And in post # 517, he commented "bigger differences in gain, balance, and character":
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/alpair-maop-10-2.378493/page-26#post-7517096
In addition to the difference in bass extension (how deep/low the bass goes), there are other difference that can be heard/perceived with different cabinets (but using the same drivers). For example, the FHXL will probably throw a deeper soundstage vs other designs, while a Mar-Ken10 is likely to give the impression of better imaging (less diffraction) due to the wide chamfers on the edges of the baffle. Scott designed the Pensil to sacrifice some of the low end extension in favor of more gain through the power range (50-120 Hz?); the high aspect ports that P10 uses for his Mar-Ken designs tend to give a more articulate bass vs a standard bass reflex cabinet, but sacrifice a few Hz at the low end. These differences can be subtle, and can vary from room to room... the room can influence the sound a lot, both at the higher frequencies and lower frequencies. Depending on the design, the speaker can interact with the room differently, and what the listener hears/perceives can vary.
In HT application there are members who enjoy fulfilling experiences with wide-band (aka full-range) drivers, though I am more inclined to multiway designs nowadays (can be driven harder, more dynamic range)... with HT you will be using a sub-woofer, so there will be less burden on the wide-band units. With wide-band drivers there tends to be some peaking in some of the mid frequencies, and the vocal intelligibility tends to be a strong point in/around the center seat. The limited dispersion characteristics might lead to quicker drop off with seats that are further away from the center.
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Gain is when the bass produced is at a higher SPL than higher up… this can bring up in level in the parts of the spectrum that fall below the extention of a reflex. Boxes like transmission lines/horns. A Pensil, Frugel-Horns, Megaliths for example. The last 2 also purposely use th eroom so that plays an even bigger factor.
How this is done is quite varied.
Balance also ls bit harder to describe… FR, the nature of the way the notes are produced, how faithfully the input signal is reproduced, and these can all be different in different places.
And the room.
Character… to a greater extent comes from higher up, and that could be the nature of the speakers diffraction signatures. If it is high you will hear the shape of the box. Another factor is box resonances. Often, a bigger loudspeaker will be harder to make “quite” than a smaller one.
A concrete example are teh shapes of the (main) miniOnkens.
Ignore the 2 on the right. The other 3 are all the same volume, and tuning. The difference is the shape. The right most (the middle one) is a Classic Golden Ratio miniOnken. Really close to Golden Ratio 0.618:1:1.618, a classic ship, originally concieved with a wide baffle (but can be flipped all ways). The rectangular baffle has a strong diffration signature. Next left, is the rectangular miniOnken which is characterized by the vents down the sides (where the Onken bit comes from) which allows for the significant chamfer down the sides. This creates a lower diffraction signature. The speaker is more capable of disapearing. Next left, the Trapezoid miniOnken (actually 8 sides counting the chamfers), which takes the chamfer further by extending it to the back of the cabinet. This speaker is very capable of disappearing.
The high aspect ratio venbts add resistance to the vents, pushing them towards aperiodic. Gives the nature of the bass elegant and well-formed at the expense of extension. A typical (plumbing pipe) duct loudspeaker can go lower, needs to be tuned lower, but one gives up a bit of control.
That only considers the horizontal, taking it further, chamfers top/bottom, spheres, eggs, tear-droppish shapes…
Many of these differences are subtle, and the quality of the information coming from the source, and how much is lost getting to the loudspeaker can determine whether any of it is audible.
dave
Thanks - this kind of difference in terms of width/depth of soundstage, imaging, etc. is the kind of insight I'm looking to glean.
i know very about conception but is it stupid to think about a Onken of the same size as a pensil to have all the benefit of few diffraction and capability to disappearing, good definition but with capability to go lower?