I run certain sets of DML's along side some nice little JBL bookshelf's and they sound very good together. The DML's are more sensitive but the nice tweeters on the JBL's come through when you're in the sweet spot.
There are no absolute rules for loudspeakers
You can find the right combination of each
The most important thing is that you feel good
Take all your materials and test them to find the best combination
Then listen for a period of time and feel that there is something missing before continuing to buy and modify
Many speaker players told me that the secret to good sound is "high price".
They are referring to the high unit price finished speaker
But I think DIY can learn complete knowledge
Learning and creating with DIY is a pleasure
There are a lot of resources here, I wish you a successful learning challenge
Thank everyone for sharing~
I think my wife is the best
But others don't necessarily think so
There is no such thing as good or bad
What suits you is the best
Have fun~
Nothing in this world is perfect
That perfection is how to choose
Then don't cling to any fixed rule form
Find an acceptable combination from all the imperfections
Have fun~
Hi LeobMaybe I'm too old to care about "air"I get good response up to 10k, but have seen a 5dB dip centered around 15k. I haven't really bothered tweaking it with EQ since I cannot really hear any difference, with 16k being the limit of my hearing.
By reducing a couple of bumps in the mids I get a reasonably flat slope from 20-20k with around 6db/oct attenuation overall, which seems right to me to keep it warm and fat sounding also at high levels.
I don't particularly pursue high frequency
But I'm just getting started and I haven't tested the tweeter
I don't know where is the high frequency limit of my hearing?
So I take 20K as the standard first
Maybe the later test results are similar to yours?
In the future, I can continue to adjust the combination that suits me
PS: I use a mobile phone to test the treble is about 16K? I don’t know if the tweeter of the mobile phone can reach 20K? So I bought a tweeter to test by the way~
Can you share the architecture you are currently using?
Thank you very much
A good response and encouraging, my interest in DML from the outset has been their non-intrusive aesthetic and ease of having them resemble a homes decor.
The idea of utilising other owned drivers has an appeal.
I have Beyma Drivers reserved for a OB Build.
Maybe I will be trying the.TPL-150 and Sub Woofer Drivers with the DML as well, when I finally get a set up system in a dedicated listening space back into my daily activities.
The idea of utilising other owned drivers has an appeal.
I have Beyma Drivers reserved for a OB Build.
Maybe I will be trying the.TPL-150 and Sub Woofer Drivers with the DML as well, when I finally get a set up system in a dedicated listening space back into my daily activities.
Hello Audiofrenzy
In my understanding, there are 2 different types of solution behind :
- hybrid multi-way where a DML is playing alone the most of the frequency range with help of a bass speaker. A third source, dedicated HF exciter or a tweeter, may be added. This gives a 2 or 3 ways, even a 2.5 if the bass is unique. A crossover (analog, digital) cuts the whole frequency range in the number of ways.
- Combined DML/cone loudspeaker where DML and standard loudspeaker play a large common frequency range. This is what Dr Katz patented under "Layered sound".
I don't have in mind many examples of the Combined DML/cone.
- the NS30 Yamaha loudspeaker from the 70's is probably one
- I remember posts here some years ago (don't remember who) where the DML were playing along with standard loudspeaker. From you @toddincabo as in the post just before?
An article : Discrete layered sound
From those sources, the DML is few dB (0 to 8dB, best 5dB?) below the cone speaker.
Might be a good solution to mitigate the weakness of each technology for a better matching with our hearing system.
More testimonials on this combined design might be interesting.
Is it you set up?
Christian
Actually I'm nearing 50, and have been very careless with my ears, so I was really surprised to still hear that high. Around 12k seems quite normal in my age, but I don't think those last few notes in the last octave is very important and rarely touch anything in the 12k+ range when mixing, and cannot really notice a 5dB dip at 15k.
Yes, good job on the reading comprehension there audiofrenzyThere are also many people that do NOT confuse their subjective experience with objective reality......If you dont know what a women is you have just proven my point. TALK ABOUT DELUSIONAL.
I tried to get it as flat as possible by adjusting plates and suspension and adjust the last with EQ, but have not tried using weights, holes or baffles. I just started going through the plates again preparing for this seasons party, and perhaps I do try using weights.
So far I tested adjusting exciter placement which seemed to have very little effect. But is now trying modifying the suspension points, which is very easy to adjust and results in clearly audible FR changes, so that is my focus for now. But the plates respond very well to EQ and doing a couple of small adjustments with DSP is fine for me.
You didn't get the core of that statement - it was not about the impedance but the inductive part of the impedance. The relation was: in the HIGHER ohmic version of the driver, the INDUCTANCE (mH) was higher - the "ohm" was not the thing.... get it?" The same way you said that 8ohm exciters lack HF. That is very misleading as they dont lack HF they just have a tad bit less. Its like saying well I only buy 4ohm tweeters because 8ohm tweeters lack HF.
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Architecture of the plates? There is a thread in PA section with some details, but in essence I use these:
https://www.dekokopf.com/neopor-styroporplatten-3er-set-50x33x2-5cm.html
Treated with very thin layers of hide glue and shellac.
Each plate have a cluster of 4xDAEX30HESF4 and is in a wooden frame clamped with foam on a few points.
Hi Leob
+ @Andre Bellwood
I made few tests with weights... in a first approach, it is an influence on the beginning of the FR, some hundred Hz;
Due to the material absorption, could we expect an influence of the suspension above some kHz?
There is on phenomena for which I think we have evidences now : it is the exciter noise due to the air trapped in the voice coil area. Happened between 2 to 5kHz?
Steve mentioned other "noises" if I remember in the 9-10k range. Where is it in all the posts?
Measuring the panels from both sides is informative about the source of peaks in the FR.
Christian
There is a catch with standard swept distortion measures and that is that the harmonica are filtered out. So anything non-harmonic is not displayed. There is a production measurement for loudspeakers that is called "rub & buzz" - thats to catch off driver faults... I have a hunch based on my experiments with DML that there might be going on more of rub&buzz in these than ordinary drivers - something to consider perhaps and measure for. One way I suppose is to do RTA with high resolution and check for the general noise floor... perhaps with a multi tone (32?) stimuli?
These would measure the same THD in a standard sweep distortion measurement...
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These would measure the same THD in a standard sweep distortion measurement...
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Hello TNT
Have you had a look to #4656, about spectral contamination? I read somewhere a suggestion to adjust the level at for example 90db. This kind of signal is not very pleasant to the hears!
Is it similar to what you describes in this post?
If you are aware of post treatment to extract some figures, let us know.
By their principle based on modes, the DML might be more sensitive to such intermodulation distortion. In a patent I linked in #4651, what it is called "self noise" it is a criteria for selecting the material.
Christian
Hi xsuper
My understanding of your problem is you have a loss of level starting at 2kHz.
No link for me between the lack of HF and the noise produced by the air trapped.
By the way, your exciter doesn't look like what we see from Dayton, Tectonic or others. It reminds me some shakers used in vibration testing. Its ratio height to diameter is singular. If you have no specification about it , to run an impedance measurement as proposed by REW would evaluate the factors like the moving mass, the inductance that are limiting for the HF.
Christian
There is on phenomena for which I think we have evidences now : it is the exciter noise due to the air trapped in the voice coil area. Happened between 2 to 5kHz?
Steve mentioned other "noises" if I remember in the 9-10k range. Where is it in all the posts?
Measuring the panels from both sides is informative about the source of peaks in the FR.
Christian
When a younger person, I was quite serious about Target Shooting using Pneumatic Air Rifles.
The better designed Pneumatic Systems had what was referred to as a 'atmospheric bleed off'.
This basically meant a design was present that would bleed of air if there was a change to the Pascal Reading that was pre set as the optimum.
As the Air to be released Chamber was filled from a larger reservoir ff Compressed Air, the likelihood of not reaching optimum fill level is very small, the overcharge is more likely due to the ambient atmospheric conditions, or that was the theory (sales spiel).
I wonder if a pre charging of the air chamber in the voice coil to a certain Pascal could be a method to substantially reduce these anomalies being detected.
It might sound strange but I am familiar with the idea, as I refill my Audax HD-3P Gold Dome Piezo periodically as it leeches its charge of air over time.
Hi!
Yes, I think it's the same territory. A way of measuring it would be to play a multitone stimuli and the filter out all tones and look whats left minus background. This is added noise and very unwelcome. But I dint know of a standardised measure or unit.
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