This one is within the budget but surely need a parralel notch with its big 25k hz break up? Any else as good hard dome you know doesn't needing such filter on the signal ? (Not sure a serie notch is as efficient than a serie one for ringing back behavior of digital music and such post high break ups tweeter, no ?)
Once again people lose sight of the fact that it is not just the tweeter you choose.there are many variables affecting its overall sound such as baffle type, location, rounding edges or square, crossover types, component quality etc etc. So take your pick and make it happen. Its a journey to the sound you like.
Probably not, Mike Chua lives in the US, IIRC!
All a deep business, this tweeter thing...
By all accounts, SB Metal tweeters are good value.
https://sbacoustics.com/product/sb26cdc-c000-4/
I would think there is little to improve on with your regular 3rd order circuit. Bear in mind that most audio signals are band-limited to about 20kHz, so any supersonic garbage is not likely to be excited.
Joachim Gerhard has done a lot of tweaking of SEAS metal domes. He tries to avoid ferrofluid, which must be very non-linear in operation, and notches the 27kHz supersonic resonance with a blocking trap which must be a small 2.2uF or so and a small coil:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/sonics-by-joachim-gerhard-cabinets-and-kits.325579/page-2
I quite like the louder SB ring radiators on theoretical grounds, though never heard one. The Vifa XT25-60 works similarly.
https://sbacoustics.com/product/sb29rdac-c000-4/
Ring Radiators deal with central soft dome breakup better IMO. Soft domes do have a problem with this. The spitty sound.
Robin Marshall considered this years back:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/robin-marshall-modicum-genius-page-4
My two cents.
All a deep business, this tweeter thing...
By all accounts, SB Metal tweeters are good value.
https://sbacoustics.com/product/sb26cdc-c000-4/
I would think there is little to improve on with your regular 3rd order circuit. Bear in mind that most audio signals are band-limited to about 20kHz, so any supersonic garbage is not likely to be excited.
Joachim Gerhard has done a lot of tweaking of SEAS metal domes. He tries to avoid ferrofluid, which must be very non-linear in operation, and notches the 27kHz supersonic resonance with a blocking trap which must be a small 2.2uF or so and a small coil:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/sonics-by-joachim-gerhard-cabinets-and-kits.325579/page-2
I quite like the louder SB ring radiators on theoretical grounds, though never heard one. The Vifa XT25-60 works similarly.
https://sbacoustics.com/product/sb29rdac-c000-4/
Ring Radiators deal with central soft dome breakup better IMO. Soft domes do have a problem with this. The spitty sound.
Robin Marshall considered this years back:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/robin-marshall-modicum-genius-page-4
My two cents.
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I did in one pair, and didn't in the second. The breakup is beyond the range of human hearing for the majority.
However, have a lower or shallower xover will likely require a notch on the Fs due to the no ferrofluid.
If you want the precision of a meatl dome ... I would not settle for a silk one. But you can try ring radiators - less coloration, smooth top end. But they do some beaming at the top end.
The small ScanSpeak/former Vifa models schould be perfectly OK for what you describe.
The small ScanSpeak/former Vifa models schould be perfectly OK for what you describe.
Reading @system7 link provided about Stereophile interview about the first ringing of tweeeter happpening very low (below the Fs, if I understood well the interview) and corupting all what is above whatever measurements look like, I wonder if there is a reason here why some like tweeter with high Fs ?
Say above 1000 or 1500 hz ? Ok it needs maybe brick wall notch before the filter or to be used at much higher cross over. But maye that high Fs is also the sign of a higher in frequency first break up we never talk ? ( I relink system7 input : https://www.stereophile.com/content/robin-marshall-modicum-genius-page-4 )
Example known of good sounding tweeters with high Fs : the 19 mylar from Seas, the 22 TAF/G metal (didn't know it was a J. Gherard/Seas collaboration) which is an hybrid fabric ring with center metal dome) ; OW1or OW2 3/4 tweeters. Ok, tweeters are said to sound better above 3 k hz XO... but also those days, people differ with tweeters crossed as low as 1500 hz with the help of greater diameter and WG help... I am a little lost. So asking the feed back of members than listened to many in different topologies help a lot. Thanks for that. Audax TW20A mg at 3 kk hz xo is tempting too !
So ok, choice extended within the 250 euros for a pair for ring radiators and metal cone tweeters too (but I fear the last cone break ups in a context of digital ring back sub harmonics... I really do not listen vynils, have digitalized all my music in 2010 iirc so use DAC : pcm ones).
I believe the Peereless/Vifa mid NE149W can not be pushed much without complex passive filtering (notchs) as showed Curt Campbel in his Micro Statment design : https://speakerdesignworks.com/MicroStatements_4.html . I find the cap a needed Devil : they are colored (I tested them a lot from many brands), expensive and I'd like to use them the less I can, but ok sligthy off topic : first I must choose a tweeter within my budget. Hence the circa 2 k hz crossing over choice to male the filter simplier as I have found most caps eats small details and corupt decay (making them early damped often : often seen with guitar decas or violins but also saxo for ilustration, ime).
Is there a preference for lower XO like 1500 hz for instance, nowadays ?
Say above 1000 or 1500 hz ? Ok it needs maybe brick wall notch before the filter or to be used at much higher cross over. But maye that high Fs is also the sign of a higher in frequency first break up we never talk ? ( I relink system7 input : https://www.stereophile.com/content/robin-marshall-modicum-genius-page-4 )
Example known of good sounding tweeters with high Fs : the 19 mylar from Seas, the 22 TAF/G metal (didn't know it was a J. Gherard/Seas collaboration) which is an hybrid fabric ring with center metal dome) ; OW1or OW2 3/4 tweeters. Ok, tweeters are said to sound better above 3 k hz XO... but also those days, people differ with tweeters crossed as low as 1500 hz with the help of greater diameter and WG help... I am a little lost. So asking the feed back of members than listened to many in different topologies help a lot. Thanks for that. Audax TW20A mg at 3 kk hz xo is tempting too !
So ok, choice extended within the 250 euros for a pair for ring radiators and metal cone tweeters too (but I fear the last cone break ups in a context of digital ring back sub harmonics... I really do not listen vynils, have digitalized all my music in 2010 iirc so use DAC : pcm ones).
I believe the Peereless/Vifa mid NE149W can not be pushed much without complex passive filtering (notchs) as showed Curt Campbel in his Micro Statment design : https://speakerdesignworks.com/MicroStatements_4.html . I find the cap a needed Devil : they are colored (I tested them a lot from many brands), expensive and I'd like to use them the less I can, but ok sligthy off topic : first I must choose a tweeter within my budget. Hence the circa 2 k hz crossing over choice to male the filter simplier as I have found most caps eats small details and corupt decay (making them early damped often : often seen with guitar decas or violins but also saxo for ilustration, ime).
Is there a preference for lower XO like 1500 hz for instance, nowadays ?
If you're worried about non-linearities in surrounds then you may wish to reconsider about wide-surround tweeter designs, since they are using it (the surround) as part of the emitting surface in the LF. If you've ever wondered why almost all see a significant rise in HD2 < ~2KHz, that's it, or at least a major factor.
It's possible to make too much of these things and paint yourself into a philosophical corner; plenty of wide-surround / ring-dome / ring radiators (which is what the latter two are: diaphragms made up of what are essentially a flexing surround or surrounds) work very well for their intended purpose / audience, so I wouldn't get overly 'religious'. Still -it's why, given the option, I prefer narrow surround designs where the dome itself is essentially the only emitting surface. YMMV.
Low filter frequencies are popular primarily because of the improved polars -assuming the tweeter has sufficient power-handling and HD, IM distortion are within the desired limits.
It's possible to make too much of these things and paint yourself into a philosophical corner; plenty of wide-surround / ring-dome / ring radiators (which is what the latter two are: diaphragms made up of what are essentially a flexing surround or surrounds) work very well for their intended purpose / audience, so I wouldn't get overly 'religious'. Still -it's why, given the option, I prefer narrow surround designs where the dome itself is essentially the only emitting surface. YMMV.
Low filter frequencies are popular primarily because of the improved polars -assuming the tweeter has sufficient power-handling and HD, IM distortion are within the desired limits.
I dunno if it is non linearity; In my simple words, treble area should have : weigth, details but staying non fatiguing yet . But I listen a lot of Jazz and little modern music (for rock I really do not care of tweeter quality for most reccordings), half part, rest being often acoustic music from all the world music and classical or voices : here I often sound it lacks naturalness and dynamic edge behavior (too fast or too long on the edge of notes attacks) and harmonics decay timing bahavior (till silences if I can talk like that)! I For illustration : I often find the decays and harmonics have not the good "weigth".
I understood it is also a room and filter question. But as all is also dependant of the driver choice, I am a little lost to choose one : many choice within my budget and XO choice... I try to start from a good enough trade off. Thanks for all the precision given here, really appreciated !
I understood it is also a room and filter question. But as all is also dependant of the driver choice, I am a little lost to choose one : many choice within my budget and XO choice... I try to start from a good enough trade off. Thanks for all the precision given here, really appreciated !
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I'm thinking of getting a sb26stc and the dome repair assembly for audax tw020mg (https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/diaphragm-audax-tw025a20mg-8-ohm.html) and build a little mutant pure Mg beast..
good luck for the centring concistency in time ! Have you seen heigth of voice coils and its winding position matter vis à vis of the gap deepness and magnet ? The Fs is also comming from the dome and its surrounds, no ? I know the STAC already, I think it is not what I am after while a good tweeter I liked. It lacks somwhat the weigth I tried to describe. For instance : good acoustical guitar are hard to render well in most speakers I heard. Often lacking a little weigth/meat in the decay, whatever you succeed to make the edge of the attack fine (peak of the dynamic foundamental note)
Mutant tweeter surgery not allowed in this thread but sligthy diy (for instance : coating)
Mutant tweeter surgery not allowed in this thread but sligthy diy (for instance : coating)
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Already built these two mutants:
scanspeak d2010/8511+seas 22tff (repair assembly)
and vifa bc25tg15+audax tw025a16 (repair assembly)
No idea how they measure, but I like the sound and it made me feel like a mad scientist lol
Anyways, sorry for the off-topic , just having a little fun...
scanspeak d2010/8511+seas 22tff (repair assembly)
and vifa bc25tg15+audax tw025a16 (repair assembly)
No idea how they measure, but I like the sound and it made me feel like a mad scientist lol
Anyways, sorry for the off-topic , just having a little fun...
