LOL! Well if ZM and Randy struggled with it, then maybe I'll get it in a century or two...
I jacked it up to 10V and the pots didn't even need to be turned. I guess from 4V to 10... same same. Yay!
Note, I left the input signal the same vs. attempting to get a phone volume and a stepped relay attenuator to give the same voltage at the output each time.
Either way... she's ready to mount up and get some tops and bottoms on. Initial bias set to ~2A per channel. Offset is essentially zip, zero, nada, and there ya go. You've all been so kind... here's some pics (named accordingly for each step) of my working disaster area (wife's words not mine)...
She wants the table back for supper... gotta run and hide.
Seriously, you guys are awesome! I anticipate tunes this weekend.
I jacked it up to 10V and the pots didn't even need to be turned. I guess from 4V to 10... same same. Yay!
Note, I left the input signal the same vs. attempting to get a phone volume and a stepped relay attenuator to give the same voltage at the output each time.
Either way... she's ready to mount up and get some tops and bottoms on. Initial bias set to ~2A per channel. Offset is essentially zip, zero, nada, and there ya go. You've all been so kind... here's some pics (named accordingly for each step) of my working disaster area (wife's words not mine)...
She wants the table back for supper... gotta run and hide.
Seriously, you guys are awesome! I anticipate tunes this weekend.
Attachments
For added fun, one can use an oscilloscope to see how the output waveform clips as a function of the AC gain setting.
At 2Vp-p 100Hz input, my Aleph 20 with an AC gain setting in the 80%+ range gave 20Vp-p at output into 8R. My scope is analog and the whole dB/RMS thing still confuses me so I'll call it 10X voltage gain. If the input was dialed up to 3Vp-p, it would asymmetrically clip the output at the top of the waveform but not the bottom. I'm calling this even-order harmonic distortion.
After adjusting the AC gain to 50% using 2Vp-p in, the output waveform looked clean by eye up to 4Vp-p input and would clip symmetrically at 5Vp-p input. I'm calling that odd-order harmonic distortion. I left the amp this way and it sounds more detailed to me now than before.
At 2Vp-p 100Hz input, my Aleph 20 with an AC gain setting in the 80%+ range gave 20Vp-p at output into 8R. My scope is analog and the whole dB/RMS thing still confuses me so I'll call it 10X voltage gain. If the input was dialed up to 3Vp-p, it would asymmetrically clip the output at the top of the waveform but not the bottom. I'm calling this even-order harmonic distortion.
After adjusting the AC gain to 50% using 2Vp-p in, the output waveform looked clean by eye up to 4Vp-p input and would clip symmetrically at 5Vp-p input. I'm calling that odd-order harmonic distortion. I left the amp this way and it sounds more detailed to me now than before.
I would just like to make one small addendum to ZM's method in post #900 (which I used as well):
I suggest that you use as an input signal a 400 Hz sine, or even lower frequency.
At 1 kHz or above, meters might not be accurate in their AC volts measurements.
(... or use two identical meters; since we are doing a relative measurement in this set-up procedure, absolute accuracy doesn't matter if the deviation is the same for both meters)
Regards, Claas
I suggest that you use as an input signal a 400 Hz sine, or even lower frequency.
At 1 kHz or above, meters might not be accurate in their AC volts measurements.
(... or use two identical meters; since we are doing a relative measurement in this set-up procedure, absolute accuracy doesn't matter if the deviation is the same for both meters)
Regards, Claas
Hi Claas!
Thank you! Much appreciated and noted. I used 100 Hz for the previous methods, and it worked seemingly well. I'll use that again. I haven't done the method ZM described in #900 yet, since I have things torn down for final assembly. What I'll likely do is 'triple check' using that method for fun to see how the different methods agree. I also didn't follow Randy's method exactly since I was too lazy to match the voltage at the output with and without the jumper. Since it's a 'range' of acceptable AC gain, I was more concerned with matching the L and R channels than hitting a perfect 50%.
I'm also anxious to try out @ranshdow's suggestion. I fiddled with REW for a few hours this morning... and I think I have things worked out again, but something is nagging me... So, I paused.
FWIW - I did the 'final' bias and offset with the top and bottom covers on last night. It plays beautiful music, and is rock stable.
Now, I just need to refine some proper measurements for learning and decide on how to properly get power from the PSU over to the amp.
Thank you! Much appreciated and noted. I used 100 Hz for the previous methods, and it worked seemingly well. I'll use that again. I haven't done the method ZM described in #900 yet, since I have things torn down for final assembly. What I'll likely do is 'triple check' using that method for fun to see how the different methods agree. I also didn't follow Randy's method exactly since I was too lazy to match the voltage at the output with and without the jumper. Since it's a 'range' of acceptable AC gain, I was more concerned with matching the L and R channels than hitting a perfect 50%.
I'm also anxious to try out @ranshdow's suggestion. I fiddled with REW for a few hours this morning... and I think I have things worked out again, but something is nagging me... So, I paused.
FWIW - I did the 'final' bias and offset with the top and bottom covers on last night. It plays beautiful music, and is rock stable.
Now, I just need to refine some proper measurements for learning and decide on how to properly get power from the PSU over to the amp.
I'm curious why is that ........
which reminds me - I have a picture of entire squadron of different Aleph pcbs
Well. I've made some progress. It was a busy week doing other things, but I managed to put some time in this morning. I had the A60 playing during the week. It was hard to disconnect it to continue the tidying work.
I have everything "close", but it's not done yet.
First, I've decided that I adore the Anderson Powerpole products. It could be a fleeting fling, but for now, I am completely smitten.
Note - I think I mentioned somewhere earlier that I had a similar crimper. I used it. Bad idea. IMHO, the only crimper that should be used is one designed for the product. A ratcheting crimper intended for insulated blade-type / rings etc, is not the correct crimper. Some of you are probably sighing to yourselves... When the correct crimper is used, it makes gorgeous connections. I can now understand why the manufacturer says to not solder them.
tl;dr - This (or similar)
https://powerwerx.com/tricrimp-powe...4QXtoZXnCuPPMJCVQeGp0yJZXpSeSkFxoCzCQQAvD_BwE
Not these (or similar)
https://www.amazon.com/Klein-Tools-Ratcheting-Crimper-10-22/dp/B07WMB61J5/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=ratcheting+crimper&qid=1691844094&sr=8-5&th=1
https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Stripper-Stripping-Crimping-Electrical/dp/B086V5M1B4/ref=sr_1_17?keywords=crimping+tool&qid=1691844357&sprefix=crimping+tool\,aps,120&sr=8-17
There are some ratcheting tools where the user can change out the die. Perhaps there is a compatible die out there for my particular ratcheting handle, but I found it easier to just buy the tool... So, now I have a few ratcheting tools ... that I can set up with different dies.
I did some reading, but when I was looking for more green housings, I found that Mouser's price for them was different than for the other colors. I wondered why and looked more closely. Mouser only keeps the green (that I could find) in the 'pre-mating' variety. I remembered that term when looking at the Neutrik Powercon. What I can't find, even with decent Google-fu skills, is why pre-mating of mains earth is important (or not) in certain applications. Some Google searches resulted in dissertations on animal rituals. Fascinating, but irrelevant. If anyone has a link and/or some knowledge to share re: pre-mating mains earth, I'd be grateful.
Pics of current status attached. I'm pretty happy.
To do ...
What would I do differently? Only one thing comes to mind for the moment. I'd have picked another color coding for my wiring. Green or Green / Yellow should be mains earth. I use it for V-. No biggie, but I think it would have been more 'standardized'. So, for now, the housing is yellow, and the wire is white.
Questions...
To twist or not to twist? Chubby says, yes, but I wonder what you all think. I have a rat's nest behind my gear sometimes, and there is internet switching, AC power etc. etc. all 'nearby'. The goal is to minimize coupling ... and if coupled ... have it 'negated'.
Is there such a thing as a proper casing that would do anything meaningful other than physical protection and a nicer aesthetic? Should I twist the DC lines in the umbilical or just run them tightly parallel? Should I keep the two supply lines (left and right channel) separate, or combine all 8 wires in the same housing/sheath? Some combination?
I've read a lot of the subject of twisting for signal, but I can't seem to find much for DC supplies (and nothing that I could find seemed relevant to this situation). More likely, I read something relevant and didn't understand it.
Thanks as always!!!
Edited to add - I had originally meant to post this in the PSU thread, but ooooooops! No need to delete and move since it's an A60. Apologies.
I have everything "close", but it's not done yet.
First, I've decided that I adore the Anderson Powerpole products. It could be a fleeting fling, but for now, I am completely smitten.
Note - I think I mentioned somewhere earlier that I had a similar crimper. I used it. Bad idea. IMHO, the only crimper that should be used is one designed for the product. A ratcheting crimper intended for insulated blade-type / rings etc, is not the correct crimper. Some of you are probably sighing to yourselves... When the correct crimper is used, it makes gorgeous connections. I can now understand why the manufacturer says to not solder them.
tl;dr - This (or similar)
https://powerwerx.com/tricrimp-powe...4QXtoZXnCuPPMJCVQeGp0yJZXpSeSkFxoCzCQQAvD_BwE
Not these (or similar)
https://www.amazon.com/Klein-Tools-Ratcheting-Crimper-10-22/dp/B07WMB61J5/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=ratcheting+crimper&qid=1691844094&sr=8-5&th=1
https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Stripper-Stripping-Crimping-Electrical/dp/B086V5M1B4/ref=sr_1_17?keywords=crimping+tool&qid=1691844357&sprefix=crimping+tool\,aps,120&sr=8-17
There are some ratcheting tools where the user can change out the die. Perhaps there is a compatible die out there for my particular ratcheting handle, but I found it easier to just buy the tool... So, now I have a few ratcheting tools ... that I can set up with different dies.
I did some reading, but when I was looking for more green housings, I found that Mouser's price for them was different than for the other colors. I wondered why and looked more closely. Mouser only keeps the green (that I could find) in the 'pre-mating' variety. I remembered that term when looking at the Neutrik Powercon. What I can't find, even with decent Google-fu skills, is why pre-mating of mains earth is important (or not) in certain applications. Some Google searches resulted in dissertations on animal rituals. Fascinating, but irrelevant. If anyone has a link and/or some knowledge to share re: pre-mating mains earth, I'd be grateful.
Pics of current status attached. I'm pretty happy.
To do ...
- New back panel for the PSU. It was ordered in error with the holes cut in the wrong place. No, there are not two power inlets / fuses. I just didn't want the open holes.
- A buddy is going to 3D print a cover for the amp back panel to secure the Powerpole housings. It will mount and fit into the existing hole for the power inlet. I don't want to mess up that back panel.
- Final tidying / wire management.
- Finish final touches on umbilical and find a good solution for strain relief separate from wire ties.
What would I do differently? Only one thing comes to mind for the moment. I'd have picked another color coding for my wiring. Green or Green / Yellow should be mains earth. I use it for V-. No biggie, but I think it would have been more 'standardized'. So, for now, the housing is yellow, and the wire is white.
Questions...
To twist or not to twist? Chubby says, yes, but I wonder what you all think. I have a rat's nest behind my gear sometimes, and there is internet switching, AC power etc. etc. all 'nearby'. The goal is to minimize coupling ... and if coupled ... have it 'negated'.
Is there such a thing as a proper casing that would do anything meaningful other than physical protection and a nicer aesthetic? Should I twist the DC lines in the umbilical or just run them tightly parallel? Should I keep the two supply lines (left and right channel) separate, or combine all 8 wires in the same housing/sheath? Some combination?
I've read a lot of the subject of twisting for signal, but I can't seem to find much for DC supplies (and nothing that I could find seemed relevant to this situation). More likely, I read something relevant and didn't understand it.
Thanks as always!!!
Edited to add - I had originally meant to post this in the PSU thread, but ooooooops! No need to delete and move since it's an A60. Apologies.
Attachments
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Dual mono external CLCRC plus MASSIVE local cap bank. I can’t wait to hear your comments on the sound. That is seriously well done!
I have some of those power poles that I planned to try inside a chassis, but haven’t gotten to it yet. A friend has been using them for his ham radio electronics for years and years. He swears by them.
I have some of those power poles that I planned to try inside a chassis, but haven’t gotten to it yet. A friend has been using them for his ham radio electronics for years and years. He swears by them.
^ It's a very, very impressive amplifier. I treated myself to putting it in the system <cough> for "final testing". Ya know... I couldn't button everything up without giving it a proper listen...
Seriously though, I have a problem with getting things 90% done, and once they get hooked up, I never take them out to finish them properly. I didn't want to do that here. I am making every effort to go against my 'norm'. This one... I hope will go through phases and be as physically beautiful as the music it helps reproduce.
I wanted something that had 'that sound'. I wanted spooky, but I need it to shake the rafters as needed. I have plenty of exceptional 'quiet tea-sipping amps'. I think we've achieved perfection. Aleph 2s may have been too much, but maybe not.
I'm getting my Vandersteen 3As back from my buddy later this afternoon. I'm curious to see how they pair together. It always took a pretty special amplifier / system (IMO) to get the best out of those. I think this may do the trick.
Also... the PSU will be getting at least one update purely for aesthetics. Prasi was incredibly cool and did a layout for me that has a few tweaks I wanted... and I'm getting them done in purple.
Thanks again for introducing me to a "Classic" Aleph. It's just incredible, and I haven't really even let it stretch its legs yet.
Seriously though, I have a problem with getting things 90% done, and once they get hooked up, I never take them out to finish them properly. I didn't want to do that here. I am making every effort to go against my 'norm'. This one... I hope will go through phases and be as physically beautiful as the music it helps reproduce.
I wanted something that had 'that sound'. I wanted spooky, but I need it to shake the rafters as needed. I have plenty of exceptional 'quiet tea-sipping amps'. I think we've achieved perfection. Aleph 2s may have been too much, but maybe not.
I'm getting my Vandersteen 3As back from my buddy later this afternoon. I'm curious to see how they pair together. It always took a pretty special amplifier / system (IMO) to get the best out of those. I think this may do the trick.
Also... the PSU will be getting at least one update purely for aesthetics. Prasi was incredibly cool and did a layout for me that has a few tweaks I wanted... and I'm getting them done in purple.
Thanks again for introducing me to a "Classic" Aleph. It's just incredible, and I haven't really even let it stretch its legs yet.
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Thank you! I did Randy's V8 PSUs. So, I thought it was appropriate to to try and do kind of a V12 in the amp chassis. That's about all I've got when it comes to creativity.
I can't remember if I had posted it before, but the nickname for the combination is 'wretched excess'. It is a really nice learning exercise, and it's also fun to go way over the top... I put in everyone's best suggestions, I hope, while also overdoing a few things. With that said... the motor-run caps were only 50uF a piece, so putting a pair in parallel per rail seemed necessary vs. excessive.
