Out of town in Raleigh, installing...
Hmm, elliptical base yet a circular apex is doable. Forming might be a bit of a challenge; making a mandrel could be one all by itself....
I've been thinking about what would occur with the wave transmission down the cone. It would seem that it would take fractionally longer to descend down the 'long axis' (9") vs. the 'short axis' (6"). What would that sound like, if it's noticeable? A form of 'beaming', dipole-like, but only in frequency? Or what? It's goofy enough to make me want to make one, if only to hear what it does different, if anything...
The base would have to be hand-cut for one...I wish I had a CNC router for these things. I can do circles, but ellipses...No.
Hmm, elliptical base yet a circular apex is doable. Forming might be a bit of a challenge; making a mandrel could be one all by itself....
I've been thinking about what would occur with the wave transmission down the cone. It would seem that it would take fractionally longer to descend down the 'long axis' (9") vs. the 'short axis' (6"). What would that sound like, if it's noticeable? A form of 'beaming', dipole-like, but only in frequency? Or what? It's goofy enough to make me want to make one, if only to hear what it does different, if anything...
The base would have to be hand-cut for one...I wish I had a CNC router for these things. I can do circles, but ellipses...No.
That's what I've been working on for a while now, i.e., variation in wave velocity at different sections of the cone; in order to widen the spectral envelope. Just a [my] theory, I may be wrong, but I'm staying with math to guide me...
On another tangent; I've built an 'asymetrical' Walsh cone that sounds great. It has a cardioid horizontal response. It changes the ratio of direct/reflected sound. Also, it surpresses normal cone standing waves to produce a flatter response. The sound radiating from the inside of the cone has less resonance, too.
Was I the first to think of it? Well, I'd be a fool the think that...
But, I still have another trick up my sleeve...
Now, that's not only fascinating, but it makes sense. An asymmetrical (spell-check attack) cone would seem to 'beam' from the 'flatter' sides, hence the cardioid pattern. A omni-dipole....mmm, and standing waves would seem to be less likely to occur because of the 'non-uniform' shape of the cone. And resonance as well...
*L* Well, one doesn't necessarily need to be the first, but 'following through' is still the part that counts, eh?
(Ah, the old 'sleeve containing trick' gambit..."please stand by for impact of other shoe" *L*)
Still in Raleigh...bright lights, big city....and 'heads up' traffic...
*L* Well, one doesn't necessarily need to be the first, but 'following through' is still the part that counts, eh?
(Ah, the old 'sleeve containing trick' gambit..."please stand by for impact of other shoe" *L*)
Still in Raleigh...bright lights, big city....and 'heads up' traffic...
Hi Jerryrigged,
Hope you and the rest of the guys had a great Bird day!
I was looking over your prior comments regarding the surrounds and thought I would offer this...
Try going on to ebay and simply type in "4.5" speaker surround" or "5 inch" etc.
Real cheap and good enough for your experimentation.
Also, check out the PVA glue for surrounds.
Best,
Dale
Hope you and the rest of the guys had a great Bird day!
I was looking over your prior comments regarding the surrounds and thought I would offer this...
Try going on to ebay and simply type in "4.5" speaker surround" or "5 inch" etc.
Real cheap and good enough for your experimentation.
Also, check out the PVA glue for surrounds.
Best,
Dale
Happy Holidaze and beware of getting 'mall-ed'...
Hi, Dale. *S* Yes, had a pleasant holiday...and since it was at another's home, haven't had to face the 'endless leftover issue'. One can only tolerate so much turkey, IMHO.
I'd not considered ebay re surrounds, so I will give it a look. Have found a source for santoprene that I'm going to try that's within the budget. Also, a business acquaintance has finally gotten the CNC machine that we'd discussed 'back when', so I can finally get the tolerances on my parts where I think they should be. I'm going to stick with the foamed PVC for the time being, though. It's rigid, absorbs vibration, and is easy to machine. (Friend says PVC machines like 'a gravy sandwich'. Not something I'm familiar with in my diet, but I get the analogy. *G*) That, and I've been around the stuff for decades now...maybe I should switch from white to black, since that seems to be the 'industry standard' for things speaker-ish...
I'd suppose that you've gathered that I'm moving towards building 'V.4'. And that is the case. There are some things I'm going to investigate as that moves forward, so 'the breed improves' as it should. Or does IM maybe not so humble O, but in the best tradition of DIY.
I will make grievous and obvious errors, and y'all can enjoy pointing that out. It's only right, after all. Where else can obstinance such as mine be tolerated outside of my marriage? *L*
That was NOT a trick question.
If you've watched/listened to my YouTube offering, I want to make something as 'bomb proof' as the speakers in the background. I don't expect them to play as loud as they do...that's silly. But 'tolerant of accidental abuse', Yes. Good response within their envelope..I'm unable to give B&W, GP, B&O, and the plethora of others 'out there' with R&D departments and the $ to run them serious concerns. I've trouble finding anyone local with 'serious ears' to give what I've got a critique' that might prove meaningful.
Yep, I'm using some unconventional materials as well. Nobody's told me I can't.
Sorry if this has devolved into a rant of sorts. I would really enjoy the company of any 'audiophile' for a 'serious listening moment'. I'd even play something other than my predilections...but they're not an obvious social group around here. The closest 'club' is in Raleigh (4 hrs. one way); not a practical 'day trip', frankly.
The few that have seen and heard them are impressed, but it's the novelty of an DIY omni...they've never heard one, didn't know it was possible to do, or much less make one from obvious 'odd parts'.
Existence in a vacuum is too quiet.
BTB, did you receive my PM? It's OK...'busy' is my problem, too.
Hi, Dale. *S* Yes, had a pleasant holiday...and since it was at another's home, haven't had to face the 'endless leftover issue'. One can only tolerate so much turkey, IMHO.
I'd not considered ebay re surrounds, so I will give it a look. Have found a source for santoprene that I'm going to try that's within the budget. Also, a business acquaintance has finally gotten the CNC machine that we'd discussed 'back when', so I can finally get the tolerances on my parts where I think they should be. I'm going to stick with the foamed PVC for the time being, though. It's rigid, absorbs vibration, and is easy to machine. (Friend says PVC machines like 'a gravy sandwich'. Not something I'm familiar with in my diet, but I get the analogy. *G*) That, and I've been around the stuff for decades now...maybe I should switch from white to black, since that seems to be the 'industry standard' for things speaker-ish...
I'd suppose that you've gathered that I'm moving towards building 'V.4'. And that is the case. There are some things I'm going to investigate as that moves forward, so 'the breed improves' as it should. Or does IM maybe not so humble O, but in the best tradition of DIY.
I will make grievous and obvious errors, and y'all can enjoy pointing that out. It's only right, after all. Where else can obstinance such as mine be tolerated outside of my marriage? *L*
That was NOT a trick question.
If you've watched/listened to my YouTube offering, I want to make something as 'bomb proof' as the speakers in the background. I don't expect them to play as loud as they do...that's silly. But 'tolerant of accidental abuse', Yes. Good response within their envelope..I'm unable to give B&W, GP, B&O, and the plethora of others 'out there' with R&D departments and the $ to run them serious concerns. I've trouble finding anyone local with 'serious ears' to give what I've got a critique' that might prove meaningful.
Yep, I'm using some unconventional materials as well. Nobody's told me I can't.
Sorry if this has devolved into a rant of sorts. I would really enjoy the company of any 'audiophile' for a 'serious listening moment'. I'd even play something other than my predilections...but they're not an obvious social group around here. The closest 'club' is in Raleigh (4 hrs. one way); not a practical 'day trip', frankly.
The few that have seen and heard them are impressed, but it's the novelty of an DIY omni...they've never heard one, didn't know it was possible to do, or much less make one from obvious 'odd parts'.
Existence in a vacuum is too quiet.
BTB, did you receive my PM? It's OK...'busy' is my problem, too.
The future: Live it, or live with it.
Another aspect of your eBay tip, Dale...speaker cones...
I've got a pair of Utah D12P 12" woofers that need a pair of cones and surrounds. The spiders are in good shape, the vc's still responded, aesthetically still 'blue and cool'. *G* Came with a working pair of H-068 horns in obvious 'home brew' cabinets that were at least robust enough to allow them to end up in my hands. So I'll browse that category as well for awhile...
I've got a soft spot for certain bits of 'old fi'...Rabco arms, transcription discs, eclectic electrics.......
...and 21st Century Walsh's...*S*
Another aspect of your eBay tip, Dale...speaker cones...
I've got a pair of Utah D12P 12" woofers that need a pair of cones and surrounds. The spiders are in good shape, the vc's still responded, aesthetically still 'blue and cool'. *G* Came with a working pair of H-068 horns in obvious 'home brew' cabinets that were at least robust enough to allow them to end up in my hands. So I'll browse that category as well for awhile...
I've got a soft spot for certain bits of 'old fi'...Rabco arms, transcription discs, eclectic electrics....
......and 21st Century Walsh's...*S*
Ah, 12 midnight, 1/1/2001. No, I don't have a time machine....everyone would blame me for Everything that's f'd up....
To quote Wikipedia:
"The 21st century is the current century of the Anno Domini era or the Common Era, in accordance with the Gregorian calendar. It began on January 1, 2001, and will end on December 31, 2100.[1][2] It is the first century of the 3rd millennium. It is distinct from the century known as the 2000s, which began on January 1, 2000 and will end December 31, 2099."
I'm stuck in the same amber as everyone else...*sigh*...can't get parts for the saucer, so I can't go home, either....life's just a cher of bowlies...*shrug*
To quote Wikipedia:
"The 21st century is the current century of the Anno Domini era or the Common Era, in accordance with the Gregorian calendar. It began on January 1, 2001, and will end on December 31, 2100.[1][2] It is the first century of the 3rd millennium. It is distinct from the century known as the 2000s, which began on January 1, 2000 and will end December 31, 2099."
I'm stuck in the same amber as everyone else...*sigh*...can't get parts for the saucer, so I can't go home, either....life's just a cher of bowlies...*shrug*
*G* Just kidding about....but you've got to admit, a radial ply cone with Michelin stamped into it, driven by magnet the size of a wheel rim OUGHT to make some sort of wild racket...*LOL* Heck, even L.W. hisself was considering ones for 'large facilities'...
...but it's Friday, after all...
Per Dale's suggestion, there are rubber as well as foam surrounds on the eBay, likely of typical thickness. Those are generally 1/32" to 1/16", I suspect. The santoprene I'm considering is 1/16", which is the same as the EVA I've been using.
One of the things that effect rubber is the durometer hardness of the rubber...I recently got a sample package for a non-audio application of neoprene, running from 30A (soft) to 80A (hard). The stiffness of the sample increases slightly with the hardness; I'd select the 30A or 40A personally. The santoprene available is 40A, which might mate well with the drivers I'm planning to use in the V.4's. They're certainly going to be more 'robust' than the V.3's drivers, so I'm going to be hopeful, cross digits, light candles, all that sort of thing....
Anyway...welcome to the weekend...*G*
...but it's Friday, after all...
Per Dale's suggestion, there are rubber as well as foam surrounds on the eBay, likely of typical thickness. Those are generally 1/32" to 1/16", I suspect. The santoprene I'm considering is 1/16", which is the same as the EVA I've been using.
One of the things that effect rubber is the durometer hardness of the rubber...I recently got a sample package for a non-audio application of neoprene, running from 30A (soft) to 80A (hard). The stiffness of the sample increases slightly with the hardness; I'd select the 30A or 40A personally. The santoprene available is 40A, which might mate well with the drivers I'm planning to use in the V.4's. They're certainly going to be more 'robust' than the V.3's drivers, so I'm going to be hopeful, cross digits, light candles, all that sort of thing....
Anyway...welcome to the weekend...*G*
...and then there's offerings like this...
https://app.audiogon.com/listings/d...surrounds-2015-11-19-accessories-12099-berlin
Makes my EVA surrounds not as esoteric as one might think....cheap, perhaps, yes. *L*
Like the frame construction, though. Gives me some ideas on how to approach a DIY basket integrating foamed PVC surround outer rings with the magnet structures. Maintaining rigidity while keeping the damping/absorption qualities of the PVC.
I'd really like to move towards a 'flat' basket, getting the 'arms' 'twixt magnet/spider base and the outer ring out of the way of the cone. An inverted basket perhaps would be better if one was to keep with stamped steel or even cast, but that's a whole parsec away in terms of development...
https://app.audiogon.com/listings/d...surrounds-2015-11-19-accessories-12099-berlin
Makes my EVA surrounds not as esoteric as one might think....cheap, perhaps, yes. *L*
Like the frame construction, though. Gives me some ideas on how to approach a DIY basket integrating foamed PVC surround outer rings with the magnet structures. Maintaining rigidity while keeping the damping/absorption qualities of the PVC.
I'd really like to move towards a 'flat' basket, getting the 'arms' 'twixt magnet/spider base and the outer ring out of the way of the cone. An inverted basket perhaps would be better if one was to keep with stamped steel or even cast, but that's a whole parsec away in terms of development...
Yaah, At the minimum; extend the v.c. former a bit to distance the cone from the spider.
Sunday strollin'
*G* Yup, that'd be included in an overall revamp of the driver. That would add to the driven weight of the moving parts, but I'd beef up the entire vc/magnet part 'n parcel, it'd be nominal.
I'm still alternately thinking about, stunned and/or amused by those woofers...
Thinking about the structure, stunned by the $ (because it's listed as a 'DIY' item), and amused because we were just chortling over rubber cones.
Would a all-leather woofer be attractive to fetishists? What would be 'suitable listening material'? How loud would they have play? Vinyl tweets, latex mids?
Curious minds get curiouser, but maybe shouldn't really go there....*L*
____________________________________________________________________
"The thing that reality and dreams have in common is that they're both ridiculous."
*G* Yup, that'd be included in an overall revamp of the driver. That would add to the driven weight of the moving parts, but I'd beef up the entire vc/magnet part 'n parcel, it'd be nominal.
I'm still alternately thinking about, stunned and/or amused by those woofers...
Thinking about the structure, stunned by the $ (because it's listed as a 'DIY' item), and amused because we were just chortling over rubber cones.
Would a all-leather woofer be attractive to fetishists? What would be 'suitable listening material'? How loud would they have play? Vinyl tweets, latex mids?
Curious minds get curiouser, but maybe shouldn't really go there....*L*
____________________________________________________________________
"The thing that reality and dreams have in common is that they're both ridiculous."