Yesrerday I received my pair of 3f25. They are bigger than the visaton's frs 8 and heavier. I managed to swap them through the k aperture.
When I was building the boxes I did not take care of bracing and I think that I will regret it with these heavier drivers.
They are a great upgrade for me. Sometimes I think that the highs become quite hursh, but stereo image is better and they have better bass.
When I was building the boxes I did not take care of bracing and I think that I will regret it with these heavier drivers.
They are a great upgrade for me. Sometimes I think that the highs become quite hursh, but stereo image is better and they have better bass.
To tame the high end, try the circuit posted here-
Baffle Step Compensation
Easy and simple, might be helpful. The capacitor value may be a little funky, but a 22 nF should work in a pinch, or you can parallel some smaller values.
Baffle Step Compensation
Easy and simple, might be helpful. The capacitor value may be a little funky, but a 22 nF should work in a pinch, or you can parallel some smaller values.
I think that’s line level baffle step compensation (before the power amp). At the speaker level you can’t put a 10k resistor or 22nF cap. The current will all go through the 8ohm drivers.
Use a 1mH inductor made of 18ga to 20ga magnet wire and put in parallel with a 5W resistor value from 4.7R to 10R adjust to taste. More R, means more HF attenuation. Look at Skylar’s example.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/311939-aca-speaker-short-list-12.html#post5347891
Yeah, that's a line level circuit, forgot to mention. easy math and common enough parts values, easy to solve for the needed C value if the 27n won't work. Doing the math, For an 8" (200mm~ .53x Karlsonator) wide baffle a 20.95nF cap, a 22nF would likely work fine. For a 6" baffle (.4x Karlsonator) a 13.9nF cap is called for, and a 15nF would likely do well.
I need to order myself some magnet wire, I like the idea of winding some inductors for such applications, but since I'm a primarily tube guy, I err on the side of line level for as much as possible.
I'm drawing up a nice 24/db/octave tube crossover too, even. Should be nice and complex, looks like it'll be a fun build
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Yes, 18 gauge is circa 1mm dia.
Like this:
Jantzen Audio 1.0mH 18 AWG Air Core Inductor Crossover Coil
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Here is an accurate AWG to metric conversion table.
I have used 16 gauge wire (1.29mm) to make my inductors and the resistance is only 60% (0.29 Ohm) of the Jantzen inductors (0.48 ohm).
finally built 0.53X dual TC9's
Cabin fever reached the threshold and I finally cobbled together a pair of dual TC9 MK 0.53X's to add to my foam managerie. No surprise, they're just as good as my cherished MK 0.41X but can fill the larger room. I am surprised at the power of the low mids that comes out of these things. I believe the foamcore acts as a kind of soundboard, in a good way, reinforcing those bottom frequencies. It used to take high end scan speak drivers and 50 pound boxes to impress me this much. Also can listen for hours with no fatigue, and they're not even broken in. I wonder if it's because there is a limited high end compared to speakers with tweeters? They are smooth and punchy. Not as loud as the combination of the black monitors and XKiclops' (combined 4 ohms also), but they both use 5" drivers and tweeters. As soon as I get my extra 7297 modded I'll be able to check out the whole wall of speakers simultaneously. Gotta maintain a goal...
Cabin fever reached the threshold and I finally cobbled together a pair of dual TC9 MK 0.53X's to add to my foam managerie. No surprise, they're just as good as my cherished MK 0.41X but can fill the larger room. I am surprised at the power of the low mids that comes out of these things. I believe the foamcore acts as a kind of soundboard, in a good way, reinforcing those bottom frequencies. It used to take high end scan speak drivers and 50 pound boxes to impress me this much. Also can listen for hours with no fatigue, and they're not even broken in. I wonder if it's because there is a limited high end compared to speakers with tweeters? They are smooth and punchy. Not as loud as the combination of the black monitors and XKiclops' (combined 4 ohms also), but they both use 5" drivers and tweeters. As soon as I get my extra 7297 modded I'll be able to check out the whole wall of speakers simultaneously. Gotta maintain a goal...
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FWIW, I've always found full range drivers to be better for all-around listening, there's a sort of mojo that multi-way builds don't have...
On that note, I finished my dual FE25 K's, with a few minor issues. My son (he'll be two in June) always likes to help, and accidentally dented in the dust cap on two of the drivers. Any ideas on how to pull them out without damage? They seem to sound just fine regardless, just bums me out a little...
I finished these up, hooked them up, and all I can say is WOW. Much better off-axis high frequency performance than the single TC9 K's, and much higher sensitivity. Perfect for use with low power amplification. I didn't get much more than TV time with them last night, but they sound much more natural and engaging than the already excellent 0.4x TC9 builds. I'll play some variety of music through them tonight hopefully and see if they need any sort of BSC or additional stuffing. I'm definitely going to plan a set in wood either way, and also start looking for 6~10" full rangers for use in full size builds (or maybe dual 5"? PA130 perhaps?) As I really, really like these.
Pictured in our very cluttered living space/kids play area (we live in a weird mother-in-law/studio type of thing that gives us plenty of room, but tricky options as far as furniture, hence the uneven placement)
On that note, I finished my dual FE25 K's, with a few minor issues. My son (he'll be two in June) always likes to help, and accidentally dented in the dust cap on two of the drivers. Any ideas on how to pull them out without damage? They seem to sound just fine regardless, just bums me out a little...
I finished these up, hooked them up, and all I can say is WOW. Much better off-axis high frequency performance than the single TC9 K's, and much higher sensitivity. Perfect for use with low power amplification. I didn't get much more than TV time with them last night, but they sound much more natural and engaging than the already excellent 0.4x TC9 builds. I'll play some variety of music through them tonight hopefully and see if they need any sort of BSC or additional stuffing. I'm definitely going to plan a set in wood either way, and also start looking for 6~10" full rangers for use in full size builds (or maybe dual 5"? PA130 perhaps?) As I really, really like these.
Pictured in our very cluttered living space/kids play area (we live in a weird mother-in-law/studio type of thing that gives us plenty of room, but tricky options as far as furniture, hence the uneven placement)
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Thanks X. Your designs and guidance have literally changed my listening life.
I think the XKiclops by themselves are almost on par with the dual TC9 0.53X. I have been listening to them since they were built, always in parallel with the black mini monitors, which lowered the impedance to 4 ohms and managed to fill my room nicely. As I recall, by themselves they weren't quite full sounding enough. The dual TC9 MK 0.53X are. I also use an old style pair of wooden 3CF subs w/10" drivers to augment the bass; they use two TPA3118 mono boards driven by a low power XO/preamp DC 9-32V Single Low Power Pass Pre-AMP Filter Bass Subwoofer Amplifier Board | eBay
I think the XKiclops by themselves are almost on par with the dual TC9 0.53X. I have been listening to them since they were built, always in parallel with the black mini monitors, which lowered the impedance to 4 ohms and managed to fill my room nicely. As I recall, by themselves they weren't quite full sounding enough. The dual TC9 MK 0.53X are. I also use an old style pair of wooden 3CF subs w/10" drivers to augment the bass; they use two TPA3118 mono boards driven by a low power XO/preamp DC 9-32V Single Low Power Pass Pre-AMP Filter Bass Subwoofer Amplifier Board | eBay
Nice build Lingwendil!
My 3FE22’s (not cheap) have little dents in them too
My son is 5 now but he poked them when he was 2. He knows better now as he is pretty handy in the speaker/amp lab by now.
You can use a something sticky like tape to pull up. Be careful not to rip it. I have also heard simply giving it a big pucker kiss can work. Vacuum cleaner attachement?
But I bet the best thing is 3M Control picture hanging adhesive strips. It can release on command.
Or just live with it.
Good luck.
My 3FE22’s (not cheap) have little dents in them too
My son is 5 now but he poked them when he was 2. He knows better now as he is pretty handy in the speaker/amp lab by now.
You can use a something sticky like tape to pull up. Be careful not to rip it. I have also heard simply giving it a big pucker kiss can work. Vacuum cleaner attachement?
But I bet the best thing is 3M Control picture hanging adhesive strips. It can release on command.
Or just live with it.
Good luck.
Thanks for your support and enthusiasm Bonjonno. Glad that the speakers continue to give folks lots of listening enjoyment.
My thanks to GregB for an awesome design in 12in which I seem to scale down with success using Akabak.
. Thanks to Freddi for bringing K tech to the forefront here on DIYA.
Hi X !
Thanks for all the work you've done so far, and keep doing.
It's amazing, especially for newcomers like me !
I've started a thread, asking what to choose for a new setup, and was advised to use the Karlsonator design.
I read a lot in this topic, but i still can't decide my mind.
It's for desktop use (63*35 inch), but i'm afraid 0.4x and TC9 won't be "enough".
Not punchy enough, or lacking bass, ... (I mostly listen to electro, house, rap.)
It's my first DIY project, so I don't have any background in home made speakers.
What would you advise ?
(i'd like to stay below the 50$ mark for the pair, so i pretty much have to chose between TC9 and PA130)
Thanks !
Thanks for all the work you've done so far, and keep doing.
It's amazing, especially for newcomers like me !
I've started a thread, asking what to choose for a new setup, and was advised to use the Karlsonator design.
I read a lot in this topic, but i still can't decide my mind.
It's for desktop use (63*35 inch), but i'm afraid 0.4x and TC9 won't be "enough".
Not punchy enough, or lacking bass, ... (I mostly listen to electro, house, rap.)
It's my first DIY project, so I don't have any background in home made speakers.
What would you advise ?
(i'd like to stay below the 50$ mark for the pair, so i pretty much have to chose between TC9 and PA130)
Thanks !
Tips on for a 1st build
I’ve been inspired by the recent posts and plans uploaded to give making a pair a go.
How would a 0.4x foam build match to a low power PCL82 SE build? This is a kitchen amp build for listening to the radio / streaming etc. So compact and filling the room would be useful.
And, going up in power, would a 0.53x pair go well with Pete Millett’s DCPP Engineers Amp? This is the main living room / TV / music amp, and would replace a pair of Wharfedale Emerald 93 floorstanders. I’m keen for something to give a bit more bass under less than ideal speaker positions (ie, probably close to the back wall / corner of the room with book shelves etc nearby).
I’ll use whichever driver (from the main recommended ones) I can get here in the UK cheaply & some cheap foam board from Amazon / eBay. The biggest obstacle I see will be adjusting the useful plans uploaded to fit on the ISO sizes I can get - the 30”x20” seem way more expensive...
I plan on plotting the cut lines on the foam using a MPCNC rig I’ve access to, and doing the cuts by hand.
Tristan
I’ve been inspired by the recent posts and plans uploaded to give making a pair a go.
How would a 0.4x foam build match to a low power PCL82 SE build? This is a kitchen amp build for listening to the radio / streaming etc. So compact and filling the room would be useful.
And, going up in power, would a 0.53x pair go well with Pete Millett’s DCPP Engineers Amp? This is the main living room / TV / music amp, and would replace a pair of Wharfedale Emerald 93 floorstanders. I’m keen for something to give a bit more bass under less than ideal speaker positions (ie, probably close to the back wall / corner of the room with book shelves etc nearby).
I’ll use whichever driver (from the main recommended ones) I can get here in the UK cheaply & some cheap foam board from Amazon / eBay. The biggest obstacle I see will be adjusting the useful plans uploaded to fit on the ISO sizes I can get - the 30”x20” seem way more expensive...
I plan on plotting the cut lines on the foam using a MPCNC rig I’ve access to, and doing the cuts by hand.
Tristan
Yes, a woman like that is priceless - marry her.
My wife, who rarely comes into my speaker lab wandered in the other day after I got new cabinets made for my 10F/RS225 FAST speakers. She listened to them and asked to crank up the volume. She liked them so much she asked me to make her a pair in espresso brown stain for the living room. Now that’s priceless.
It probably helped that they were being played through my new ALPHA 20w Class A amp.
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