Since you are already so close, going with 15 x 15 x 45 would conform to USA rental truck box dimension integers of 90 inch, and reduce cabinet volume by only a tiny fraction.
You took the words out of my mouth
. I was about to suggest getting it to 45 for packing into a semi-truck compactness. you could get like 30-50 of these in a semi , good luck getting 20-40 kw of power though Reason I forgot about it is the alpine 15 is cheaper, performs better, and is more available. Until proven otherwise that is what I'll use, if a 15 is warranted.
115 shipped, not a limited run, 2 mm more xmax, more output.
135 per cab (estimated cost for me to build the sws 12 sub), 4 would be enough for a small outdoors concert at 133 dB @ 1 m. including amps that is 840 total, concert subwoofer set. Sell that for 3k easily.
Full cab fits on a single sheet of 4x8 or 2 4x4's if that is easier to come by.
Full cab fits on a single sheet of 4x8 or 2 4x4's if that is easier to come by.
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BeauB ,
Here is my most recent Lab15 (special) box .... This one is pretty good ... Velocities stay in the same range as Saba's cab which works well, but at a full 600w with this Lab Cab and this one has flares around the constriction!
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Electronics semi trailers are wider, like 102" interior, rather than 90" boxes still common in rental straight trucks.You took the words out of my mouth
135 per cab (estimated cost for me to build the sws 12 sub), 4 would be enough for a small outdoors concert at 133 dB @ 1 m. including amps that is 840 total, concert subwoofer set. Sell that for 3k easily.
Semis now run around 52' long inside, you could fit over 500 of these tiny boxes in one, but it would be grossly overweight.
Getting a three phase 400 amp service for sound is common in most large venues, 144 kw.
If you can get 3k easily for four little proprietary cabinets, please pm me, I have had no luck moving my stuff advertised at a lot less than that .
Art
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BeauB ,
Here is my most recent Lab15 (special) box .... This one is pretty good ... Velocities stay in the same range as Saba's cab which works well, but at a full 600w with this Lab Cab and this one has flares around the constriction!
Excellent!
What it would be worth retail and what people are willing to pay are often different completely. I'll let you know when I sell my first set to a club. goal is 1200 fully configured with amps for a pair of subs (and room eq). 2k for 4. Not sure if anyone has 3k+ to spend so I likely will price as ^^. People get 1600 per T60 and as I mentioned earlier that sub is significantly (3-5 dB) less output than a pair of these devils, not to mention larger.
Guys, it's official, 2 of these things is absolutely destructive. Same order of magnitude as the T60 (+-3 dB) and a little better on the 32-35 end as predicted by hornresp. Serious house rattle. Can't believe I built a pair for 160. Truely impressive.
Brutal yet accurate with no sign of strain (this is all subjective and from 12 feet away). What surprises me most is it still generates enough output to be useful on 30 hz bass notes (spectrum analyzer showing 28-32 power band), of course this is in a small room with corner loading but I wasn't expecting physical response below 35.
Brutal yet accurate with no sign of strain (this is all subjective and from 12 feet away). What surprises me most is it still generates enough output to be useful on 30 hz bass notes (spectrum analyzer showing 28-32 power band), of course this is in a small room with corner loading but I wasn't expecting physical response below 35.
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Sounds like the glue finished drying on your second 10S4 ML-TP box
Im so glad you like them.
Im sure your neighbors are wondering WTF right now..hehe
Sub bass is our gift to your neighbors, and you are overflowing with generosity!
In America we were all taught at an early age by Sesame Street, Disney and Mr Rogers that sharing is caring ... Later in life we acquire the resources to share in abundance.. Your neighbors just need to be polite and accept your gifts of sub-bass or you will be offended.
Saba --->
Matthew -----> 
Neighbors -------->
Imperial entanglements -------->
Hi Matthew Morgan J,
Post #426: In the simulation and sketch you have S1 and S2 spaced apart, and the throat chamber connecting the driver to S1. The chamber needs to connet to S2 in a TH to correspond to the simulation.
Interesting concept, needs xrk971's AkAbak skills.
Regards,
X was working on it for a bit , but somehow the sim left the huge throat chamber out of the equation ... Not sure what happened there.... Im hoping he will give it another shot ....
I am working on a version (2.2) that can be 100% simmed accurately in HR , but it has no flares , and seems highly damped , which can be good if someone is looking for a louder, tighter and punchier sound .... Version 2.1 (flares) still has a wider bandwidth and a little more extension though so perhaps i will offer both flavors so people can choose the one that has the right curve for them ...
TB46 ,
When using a throat chamber and port in this way the chamber's port connects in series with the S2 point of the path so you don't want to use any offset at all or you just lose valuable path length ... So basically there should be no centimeter spacing between S1 and S2 ... S1 basically becomes useless ...
in version 2.1 I eliminated the port (Ap1 and Lpt) and used s3 as the constriction instead ....
In version 2.2 im bringing back the port and losing the flares ...
Technically the driver is slightly offset at the closed end of the throat chamber in the sketch but HR gives us no control over the offset (within the chamber itself) , it just assumes you are driving the end of the chamber with zero offset ( just like making a QWP in HR's "ND" mode , with the open end of the QWP attaching to a port (optional) which then connects to S1 ...
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Hi again,
Post #437: "...When using a throat chamber and port in this way the chamber's port connects in series with the S1 end of the pipe..."
I just want to point out, that by definition the driver (or any chamber connected to it) connects to S2 and S4 in a 4-segment tapped horn in Hornresp. When in TH mode the throat chamber (if used) does not connect to S1.
Regards,
Just saw your edit. Looks like you got it correct now.
Post #437: "...When using a throat chamber and port in this way the chamber's port connects in series with the S1 end of the pipe..."
I just want to point out, that by definition the driver (or any chamber connected to it) connects to S2 and S4 in a 4-segment tapped horn in Hornresp. When in TH mode the throat chamber (if used) does not connect to S1.
Regards,
Just saw your edit. Looks like you got it correct now.
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Sounds like the glue finished drying on your second 10S4 ML-TP box
Im so glad you like them.
hehe
Sub bass is our gift to your neighbors, and you are overflowing with generosity!
In America we were all taught at an early age by Sesame Street, Disney and Mr Rogers that sharing is caring ... Later in life we acquire the resources to share in abundance.. Your neighbors just need to be polite and accept your gifts of sub-bass or you will be offended.
Saba --->
Neighbors -------->
Imperial entanglements -------->
Just did a "full power" lorde - Royals (DJ Slow n Throw rebass) and it although I haven't compared it side by side with the T60 I wreckon it is probably louder in the 35 hz band than the T60, or definitely just as loud. Absolutely physical shake the whole house kind of loud. That unrelenting smile that comes out when you realize what you've created and how ridiculous it is compared to anything commercial you've compared it to (only thing that beats it is the dual martin logan (each with dual 12's 3600 watts rms per cabinet, i know, let them dream). If I had a big room without 1920's windows I'd be in business. Still didn't hit the limiter, I just can't realistically get there, I know I'm close say maybe +2 dB but it's just absolutely insane that I don't for fear of breaking something.
Firm believer now that multiples make everything better!
Now I really don't want to sell these babies, except for the fact that I need to pay off the 160 I spent on them plus the 73 I spent on the next driver (found out I have enough wood left to do that build). Hopefully I also get enough from it to buy a inuke 3000dsp or snag one of those crown 1350 wrms /4 ohms per channel amps that are on crazy sale right now.
Here is a spectrum analysis of the whole song, if this sub didn't hit mid 30's and with authority than I wouldn't have enjoyed this song (note it's a remix with even lower bass)
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To provide further explanation: ..... This message should finish providing the rest of the information regarding how HR can be used in an unusual fashion to sim boxes like these , in case anyone want to try this simulation......
TB46 ,
When using a throat chamber and port in this way you have to be sure to switch to "throat adapter" mode in HR and also be sure to use TH mode ... Basically there should be no centimeter spacing between S1 and S2 ... Using offset here just causes a loss in valuable path length (but not net volume) (Hornresponse's "TH" mode and "OD" mode differ in this aspect because in OD mode the throat chamber's port attaches to S1 and adding centimeters to the length of S1 can create a flare shape because S1 attempts to adapt the cm sq area of the end of the port with the sq cm area of S1) ....Sorry for any confusion there .... Ok , moving along.... In TH mode the end of Lpt/Apt connects to S2 ..... of course after S2 the standard horn/pipe segments form the latter portion of our path and S5 is our exit/mouth/terminus or whatever you choose to call it ...
Throat chamber is defined by Vtc/Atc
As HR sees things the driver has no offset meaning it is simmed as being plugged right into the end of the (in our case tube shaped) chamber with the driver facing the path (instead of firing into the side of the path at some user defined distance from the closed end) ....... Ironically in the real-world built version there is a slight offset but it's effect on response will be minimal ...
So yes , thats basically how that ML-Transflex box is arranged in Hornresponse , i know it is highly unorthodox , but it works ...
in version 2.1 I eliminated the port (Ap1 and Lpt) and used s3 as the constriction instead ....
In version 2.2 im keeping the big throat chamber, bringing back the port, losing the flares, and setting up the S1 through S4 segments as a straight fat pipe shape again (S5 can be deactivated in this case and S4 becomes the new mouth to simplify things) ....
TB46 ,
When using a throat chamber and port in this way you have to be sure to switch to "throat adapter" mode in HR and also be sure to use TH mode ... Basically there should be no centimeter spacing between S1 and S2 ... Using offset here just causes a loss in valuable path length (but not net volume) (Hornresponse's "TH" mode and "OD" mode differ in this aspect because in OD mode the throat chamber's port attaches to S1 and adding centimeters to the length of S1 can create a flare shape because S1 attempts to adapt the cm sq area of the end of the port with the sq cm area of S1) ....Sorry for any confusion there .... Ok , moving along.... In TH mode the end of Lpt/Apt connects to S2 ..... of course after S2 the standard horn/pipe segments form the latter portion of our path and S5 is our exit/mouth/terminus or whatever you choose to call it ...
Throat chamber is defined by Vtc/Atc
As HR sees things the driver has no offset meaning it is simmed as being plugged right into the end of the (in our case tube shaped) chamber with the driver facing the path (instead of firing into the side of the path at some user defined distance from the closed end) ....... Ironically in the real-world built version there is a slight offset but it's effect on response will be minimal ...
So yes , thats basically how that ML-Transflex box is arranged in Hornresponse , i know it is highly unorthodox , but it works ...
in version 2.1 I eliminated the port (Ap1 and Lpt) and used s3 as the constriction instead ....
In version 2.2 im keeping the big throat chamber, bringing back the port, losing the flares, and setting up the S1 through S4 segments as a straight fat pipe shape again (S5 can be deactivated in this case and S4 becomes the new mouth to simplify things) ....
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