I think there is too much emphasis on the FM curve for crossover design. Yes, the hearing is more sensitive (at least for loudness) in the midrange, but not THAT much better, especially in context of typical listening levels.
Hi,
Why please ? Make the crossover transition less flat or is no as accurate as when the drivers are time aligned but still angled the same towards the listener as usual designs (drivers all at 90°, i.e. not slanted) ! Easier to make recessed bafles à la Cabasse or Troels Gravsen (at the risk of difraction due to the angle created by the width between the 2 overlaped bafles?
That's a thing I do't understand with slanted time aligned bafles... it works, but "only" in the overlap made by the slopes of the LP & HF....but there is always a group delay evrywhere below & above that cut-off area that anyway can not be solved (am I right or wrong here please ?) too much but partialy with the best choices of drivers and their cut-off between each others in passive filters design and in their enclosure (no convolution easy to made with passive parts and acurate as in FIR domain ?)
Sorry if too much confusion . Off topic btw !Hifijim, with the Fs 500 hz of the cac tweeter and your dsp with time delay, a LR2 was not enough at 2k hz ?? And the close enough ctc as per seen in your thread between the two units (nice design btw
)I believe you! I just like 3 ways better than 2 ways, all else being equal of course. For me, the female singing voice, piano, etc. are some of the most telling in that critical midband. I experiment over and over until I get it just right. Every 3 way I have ever done almost always sounds better than every 2 way I have ever done. I have heard some 2 ways that sound really good for sure; just not my cup of tea when given a choice. I consider the optimum mid to be 4 inch to 5 inch, less the 4 inch, the bass suffers, greater than 5 inch, the high mids and low treble suffer; again, exceptions as always...
three way vs two way: technically, three-way is always better than two-way. But it has more "but":
1. you need very good capacitors for mid´s high pass filter, it´s very very important for sound quality (2way speakers haven´t this obstacle in their path), and it is very expensive because you can await value 80 - 120 uF (maybe more) by 4ohms variant (rather 3,2 ohm) and a half by 8 ohm. LR 2 maybe ok, but I know that very ofen it is not enough and LR3/4 is very expensive
2. if you use smaller speaker like 13 textreme you lost sensitivity and choice of good bass speaker with the same sensitivity is very difficult
3. you need smaller bass unit with higher crossover frequency, because you can´t overload this smaller midspeaker. Copromise...
4. problem with inner volume and damping of mid´s . Who tried make some 3way, knows....
5. maybe best 3way is 4way speaker
1. you need very good capacitors for mid´s high pass filter, it´s very very important for sound quality (2way speakers haven´t this obstacle in their path), and it is very expensive because you can await value 80 - 120 uF (maybe more) by 4ohms variant (rather 3,2 ohm) and a half by 8 ohm. LR 2 maybe ok, but I know that very ofen it is not enough and LR3/4 is very expensive
2. if you use smaller speaker like 13 textreme you lost sensitivity and choice of good bass speaker with the same sensitivity is very difficult
3. you need smaller bass unit with higher crossover frequency, because you can´t overload this smaller midspeaker. Copromise...
4. problem with inner volume and damping of mid´s . Who tried make some 3way, knows....
5. maybe best 3way is 4way speaker
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I'm ready for a FULL line up! MR and MW plus subs! Bring it on! Full range 2 inch to 15 inch. I think this is probably the best cone material in maybe an entire generation!? Until then; I'll stick with my system; hard to beat for sure. Anyone think they have the ultimate system yet? I do; but ALWAYS improving. For the money; I am convinced you can't meet, beat or exceed what I currently have...HOPING for WAY better technology to blow my system out of the water; so far; I have what is probably the most accurate and neutral and natural sounding system for the money available ... PERIOD...
Another question is that it's worth the double price of the papyrus cone? Of course it depends on the budget but I would also be curious about the audible differences.
I keep hoping after the initial offerings, the prices will start to drop. I just sold my MW16 pair and still have my MR16 pair which I run in parallel with the MA Pluvia 7PHD. This combination is really hard to beat for the money for sure. That's why I am REALLY wanting the new MR13 TX mids to be released. I would say; if you want very high quality, the current Satoris are some of the best. The TexTremes are reported to be better yet. I am happy with what I have for now until after 3rd party TexTreme testing and price drops, I'll stick with what I have now.
I guess it comes down to budget as to which Satori; if you have the budget; I'm guessing the extra cost of the TexTremes are worth it. Just my thoughts.
Weren't the original Satoris higher priced when they were first released? Then followed by a price drop?
I guess it comes down to budget as to which Satori; if you have the budget; I'm guessing the extra cost of the TexTremes are worth it. Just my thoughts.
Weren't the original Satoris higher priced when they were first released? Then followed by a price drop?
you should look better at their AMT... more and more people seems claiming than their Be tweeter are not as high quality the material would like to exhibit (understand some other brands with Be sounds way better) but I have no personal idea, just what I read here and there.... , You want a lens to cut-off lower, I will lurk towards Bilesma big Sd tweeters or the Peereless 1.4 Corundum if budget is less important but still with sota quality (especially for the price with the peereless)
Maybe the Textreme tweeter is the best Q/P from SB (with their CAC tweeter too).... (why they don't make more 8 ohms tweeters as ScanSpeak does?)
, You want a lens to cut-off lower, I will lurk towards Bilesma big Sd tweeters or the Peereless 1.4 Corundum if budget is less important but still with sota quality (especially for the price with the peereless)Maybe the Textreme tweeter is the best Q/P from SB (with their CAC tweeter too)....
(why they don't make more 8 ohms tweeters as ScanSpeak does?)
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I have never owned an AMT tweeter but like the sound of a quality one for sure. I have had 4 pairs of ribbons over the years and decades; AMT are supposed to have a broader vertical pattern than most ribbons. Maybe the TexTreme tweeters have a nice balance to them; I mean, not too bright, not too dull. Some soft dome tweets I find to be too polite; some hard domes I find to be the opposite; too much false brilliance. I really like my Fostex T90A; it seems to do everything well for me. Of course; most of you need a tweeter than goes lower than just a ST like the Fostex.
How many of you out there have a long term listening experience with the TexTreme tweeter??? How do you describe the sound quality???
SATORI TW29TXN-B-4 / TeXtreme Dome Tweeter, 4 ohm
How many of you out there have a long term listening experience with the TexTreme tweeter??? How do you describe the sound quality???
SATORI TW29TXN-B-4 / TeXtreme Dome Tweeter, 4 ohm
This will probably take a year or so to get into peoples hands ... FCUKING covid bull ****... but soon enough we'll know where this sits in terms of listening pleasure.
https://sbacoustics.com/product/at60nc-4-kapton/
https://sbacoustics.com/product/at60nc-4-kapton/
ahahah right, I'm agree... I'm f.....g blocked, we can not even travell more than 1 kilometer but for working where I live...make me crazy too
I can not have access to a part of my toys (well that's not important regarding the disease).... I said hat already elswhere : look at The Party movie with Peters Sellers, we will all doing a big fiesta after vaaccins cocktails
!@ oldspeakerguys : sure, if I have to pay more than 100 units for a tweeter, it will be more a Textreme than a Be cause toxicity of after life of the loudspeaker and good enough result of todays hard cones and even soft domes like Dynaudios'
Well, maybe than vertical patern of those ribbons and amt are a little tricky, I don't know. But I suspect again the low end is as more important as the audible range of a tweeter for clean results. And the last octave we want all needs compensation as we are going old as you already stated out. I can not believe (understand I know it's true but I don't want to believe it) that my 40 yo ears are not as my 50 yo etc ears... I'm almost looking more at what happen below the high pass of a tweet if I sim. than whaty happen in the last octave rephrasing badly what Zaph wrote....
I'd like to have a Fostex 925 for such compensation behavior in the last octave : too much complex for me (I'm a casual guy) in the passive filter domain. (I stay passive cause the casual disease and I have a f...g dood sounding DAC as well!)
What you and I need is a mid-tweet : i.e. cut-off <= 1 K hz 1.5K seems near enough with lense. and the vertical is less an arm than ribbons (though ??? what about amt that handle 1k hz to 1.5 khz cut-off à la Aerostriction 2560 something unit?). Or after there is the 1" compression with the horn to go lows : better for the ctc, a nightmare for the spouse, a laugh for the friends viewing the spouse's face too.
Nah if I have monney I would like to see how the 1" Textreme plays in a lense à la Revel speakers cause it's feasible in a living room more than the huge horns !
I'm on the SB CACs... expensive enough for my walett and good enough for my designing level that is very damped
! So a 5" Textreme with a 1" CAC horned or not, with a 8" CAC or two and of course the good enough box and filter can be good enough for most (don't forgett you need also a good amp and dac/LP for hifi and believe me not good speakers without a very good source)
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Aurum Cantus AST2560 Aero Striction Tweeter
Oh DEAR ME!!! I have wanted to try these since they came out; now on sale!!!
I just sold my G3Si Ribbons; these AMTs from Aurum Cantus normally sell for the same price as the ribbons...
I think I'll drop my price on my CAC 17 on the swap shop now; need quick cash so I can get these AC AMT's on sale!!!
Oh DEAR ME!!! I have wanted to try these since they came out; now on sale!!!
I just sold my G3Si Ribbons; these AMTs from Aurum Cantus normally sell for the same price as the ribbons...
I think I'll drop my price on my CAC 17 on the swap shop now; need quick cash so I can get these AC AMT's on sale!!!
Well , yes this one I would like to try too, hard to find at good price enough here in Europe.
It is said there are cleaner drivers of course but the trade offs of sound and details are good enough for 2k+ XO....
I'm looking forward the smart guys here try the 1" Textreme in a Visaton or else horn though.... domes have something when it comes to the ambiance we like in Jazz or little classic or pop. events ! (i.e circular pattern playing with the walls below... what.... 15 k hz ?!)
It is said there are cleaner drivers of course but the trade offs of sound and details are good enough for 2k+ XO....
I'm looking forward the smart guys here try the 1" Textreme in a Visaton or else horn though.... domes have something when it comes to the ambiance we like in Jazz or little classic or pop. events ! (i.e circular pattern playing with the walls below... what.... 15 k hz ?!)
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