Stability testing my new Rod Elliot P3A

CDIL from India also make the BD139/140. and many other classic transistors. They are cheap, and as far as I have experienced they are good. I can buy them in Europe, don't know if they are distributed in the USA.
I used higher hfe rated Cdil BD139 in JLH69 Class-A & it worked fine. The price is also very cheap. You can buy 10 unit by spending only $1.
 
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Version 2.3
View attachment 1218807
I reversed the wiring on the trim pot so that the turns go in the correct direction.
Tidied up the labeling to how I like it

Nobody seems to have any negative feedback on the layout so I think I will stare at it for another hour to make sure I'm happy and then place the order.
Capacitor Decoupling the front end from the output stages means more than adding a few capacitors to earth at the Vas and Bootstrap connections to the supply rails.
If you would allow space for resistors to form RC low pass filter to prevent spuriae on the supply rails entering the Vas and bootstrap connections to get a more effective result. 47 Ohms and 47uF//100n should be enough.

I have seen circuits where RC decoupling has been used on only one rail, here that would be the negative one. The LTP tail is a CCS which has some rejection properties which the bootstrap lacks. The latter will ingest any negative supply rail.spuriae unless steps are taken to prevent such ingress.
 
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The formula where turnover is - 3dB is 1/2pi. R.C. that works out at 72 Hz the filter. Frequencies above 72 Hz will be attenuated at a rate of 6 dB per Octave so the higher the spurious voltage is the greater this will be attenuated. There are on line calculators you can use. You can find one of these in a selection on digikey website. From one of these you should be able to see the attenuation at 100kHz.
 
G'day Guys,

Here is my first draft of a pcb layout to accommodate the stability improvements etc.
View attachment 1218447
Schematic: I'm not sure if C-5/C-6 are of much importance so I haven't yet put them in the pcb.
From what I can work out the positive rail is more important here.
View attachment 1218448
This is just a first draft, things like labeling, trace width, pad sizes, extra pad options etc are not yet optimised.

At this stage I am concerned with trace routing and parts placement.

This is loosely copied from Rod's part placement for Q4-Q9, VR1 and R13/R14. The rest is just where it made sense to me to put it.
just randomly throwing decoupling along the rails won't do anything ? 10-22R between driver/output with the caps behind (at the driver/vas)
decouples that nested FB path ,I do this on the wolverine/slewmaster EF3's. The EF3 also can exhibit instability depending on the decoupling
an the Ft of the pre/driver/ output. I've modeled the OP in isolation. EF3 peaks near Ft , CFP @ 10-12 Mhz.
 
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Thanks for the feedback.

Version 3.0
Schematic v3.0.png


And the layout:

P3A layout v3.0.png


I've copied from the wolverine here, 1R 2W for the output to driver decoupling and 10R 1/2w for the input/VAS decoupling.

It's amazing how much one can learn from frying some output transistors.....
 
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Grounding is often the trickiest part of audio PCB design. Ideally, the positive and negative grounds should resolve locally before connecting to the rest of the ground network. If you look at the ESP's P3a PCB, you'll see this in practice. Addressing this on your PCB would require a bit of reworking.

The Wolverine PCBs are an excellent example of audio grounding done right, using a star on star approach with a ground lift. It's quite a bit more intricate that simpler grounding topologies.
 

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The "Good" version is what is generally recommended and how I see most grounding implemented on most successful PCB designs. I have not tried a PCB with the "BAD" Layout.

Douglas Self describes the reasoning for this in his book Audio Power Amplifier Design (chapter 25):

The positive and negative rail reservoir caps will be joined together by a thick earth connection; this is called the Reservoir Ground. Do not attempt to usage any point on this track as the audio-ground star-point, as it carries heavy charging pulses and will induce ripple into the signal. Instead take a thick tee from the centre of this track and use the end of this as the star point.

You can see this approach used in the Wolverine and ESP P3a layout.
 
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A power amplifier has a mix of high and low currents. You want to control the flow of these currents (as described in the quote from Douglas Self above). With a ground plane, you loose this control.

However, I have seen ground planes used is specific parts of the circuit. Like just the small signal sections. I think Self does this in PCBs he sells for his Blameless amp.

You'll generally see ground planes avoided and specific routing used to control the flow of currents and keep the large output currents away from the small input current.
 
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just randomly throwing decoupling along the rails won't do anything ? 10-22R between driver/output with the caps behind (at the driver/vas)
decouples that nested FB path ,I do this on the wolverine/slewmaster EF3's. The EF3 also can exhibit instability depending on the decoupling
an the Ft of the pre/driver/ output. I've modeled the OP in isolation. EF3 peaks near Ft , CFP @ 10-12 Mhz.
I outlined the first point in post 203 in connection to the image 121807 and provided the RC formula and where online calculators could be found. The circuit in post 207 image 1218448 showed no change.

Moving on, in another oversight the zobel network now shows R15 as 220R?? Even with a proper value this is needs help from additional components.
 
Thanks for the catch on R15.

With the RC networks on the supply rails I thought I was surely ready to go.
I've seen this kind of grounding layout used on many boards around here so I thought I was on a good path.

I've got a lot more work to do it seems.

Time to study my wolverine boards some more....
 
The "Good" version is what is generally recommended and how I see most grounding implemented on most successful PCB designs. I have not tried a PCB with the "BAD" Layout.

Douglas Self describes the reasoning for this in his book Audio Power Amplifier Design (chapter 25):

you have referenced info regarding the power supply itself.

the issue here is local decoupling on the amplifier pcb.