3-4k in Warsaw, but the average income is different too. But in Germany or the Netherlands...
If we're talking about the price of a studio-style bass trap, min 0,5 m from all the walls — it not cheap I think
If we're talking about the price of a studio-style bass trap, it not cheap I think
many professional studio make their 20-30 inch deep bass traps with fluffy Roxul fiberglass. Works as intended. cheap as hell.
no idea why you think it cost a fortune to build big bass traps TBH
Are you not reading my messages? For a room 5x4 m for example with 20-30 inch of bass traps on all the walls — you need 25-30k per square meters (3-4k/1m2). Plus building materials and work. If you think it's cheap, I'm happy for you. (Personally, I generally rent accommodation, so this method is completely unacceptable.) But if I buy a flat, I don't think I'll give that much space for bass traps).
Can you show measurements of your room in REW to see how your bass solution works?
for sure, it takes space
30 inch is pushing it
20 inch deep with a 10 inch gap is almost as effective
20k (not renminbi)
The window space that juts out -- what's it called -- is typically priced at 50% so yes I have my pair of subs-to-supertweeters on the windowsill with ample bass absorber. I hope much sound energy goes out the windowpane instead of upstairs/downstairs.
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For $1k, you could save a ton of effort and square footage by
1. an OB sub approach whose dipole/ figure 8 pattern won’t excite the room…..provides the cleanest most natural sounding bass response…..period….end of discussion….BUT requires displacement…..2-4 15’s or 2 18’s
2. A multi small sub (4) approach with some DSP. Think of your room as a giant wave pool with 4 seperate generators……impossible for large wave formation which results in deep nulls and peaks……instead multitudes of tiny amplitude wave fronts colliding but all within +/-3db of eachother.
Do you have proof?
Better to say: A dipole sub excites room less. But even in this case it is interesting to see the proof
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I second the dipole aprouch. It was only since I started using dipole woofers that I discovered that there is actually a lot of detail going on down low. But yes, it does require lots of moving surface not a small surface with large excursion. Although that might seem to move the same amount of air in theory and it might even measure the same it sounds completely different. Same is true for closed box or bassreflex speakers. Big woofers sound big, small woofers sound.....well, small, nomatter how they measure
I don’t have in room measurements to share but the supporting evidence is out there.…..and yes…..it’s more accurate to phrase as ‘less‘ than ‘won’t’. With such minimal room modes created by OB/Dipole I’ve considered it an insignificance.
And I don't. And I probably won't be able to any time soon.
This is such minimal room modes created by monopoles in room, about 13' from speakers:
In my eyes you get the best bass (independently of room acoustics) with big bass drivers.
You can use even cheap 18 inch bass drivers - they just have to be implemented correctly.
I got each of these 18inch drivers for only 40 Euro each as from a remainder selling. However new the were in the 100 Euro price range.
Appropriate installation and building and you get true high end loudspeakers capable of reproducing ANY loudness:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...ow-off-my-new-18in-build.365764/#post-6711139
You can use even cheap 18 inch bass drivers - they just have to be implemented correctly.
I got each of these 18inch drivers for only 40 Euro each as from a remainder selling. However new the were in the 100 Euro price range.
Appropriate installation and building and you get true high end loudspeakers capable of reproducing ANY loudness:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...ow-off-my-new-18in-build.365764/#post-6711139
Attachments
Yeah, I would also think that any box/boxless can work similarly well or worse, the system needs to be positioned and tuned with the room. If not then I think there is no point compare two systems as they would sound very different anyway, due to interaction with room. For example dipole bass rolls of 6db per octave from ~baffle size down. it could be that impression it being good is that there is not as high modal peaks as with some other box, reflex or sealed, TL or a horn. While it could be also less room modes, one could just EQ any of the other variants. It would be important to note if DSP/room EQ was used or not while saying something worked better than something else. If there is no EQ then perhaps the dipole is best. I cannot stress enough how much it makes difference to balance out low end regardless of the box alignment/boxless.
very very true
no matter how they measure, small woofers sound small. the kick is smal, the bass is not big.
change for a big woofer and you got the big kick, the body shakes, its not comparable
yet, both can measure the same
Measurements is false science, for those things at least.
Cost, flexibility and fussiness have to figures in…..what one is willing to go through to get smooth in room response…..and that’s still not the whole story…..there’s a subjective component here beyond what measurements can reveal or even explain. Put a speaker in a box and the box has a sound all its own….there’s no escaping the reality……..a naked transducer with minimal re enforcement from baffle and boundaries avoids this and it can be qualified in listening experiences. For what it’s worth, you can take a guy like Troels Gravensen who has voiced hundreds of designs and either pay attention or disregard his subjective opinion….”best bass performance….none of my other designs even come close”……given the complexity of his work, I don’t see a level of expectation bias here……just an observation IMO that has significant value given the practical experience.
Yeah for sure, dipole might be it. I'm not saying it wasn't, trying to tout that when comparing things a context is needed for reader to be able to evaluate if its something for him or not. I could speculate TG says anything to boost sales, for example. Or that listening nineties eurodisco dipoles wont cut it or anything else alike. Most of my bass problems got away with room EQ but there is still some, like having listening spot middle of room killing 30Hz. Will try dipole bass before multisub. Dipole bass with EQ.
or anything else alike. Most of my bass problems got away with room EQ but there is still some, like having listening spot middle of room killing 30Hz. Will try dipole bass before multisub. Dipole bass with EQ.
I've also got better bass everytime going bigger woofers, I think it is just about headroom, capability to follow dynamics. Anyone have tried if small driver was multiplied to have same Sd as single big driver if they would match up? One 15" equals about seven 6.5" drivers for example.
I have a lot of bass with some Eminence Beta 12" drivers, that I rather like listening to.
They have a simple crossover with an air-core inductor, and a motorola bullet type tweeter for the top, in some old PA speaker cabinets with some polyester stuffing and a 'port'.
I do EQ the signal to it, quite a bit, actually, and power each with well powered 150W Maplin amps, the 'port' chuffs a bit on extremely low notes, but that's more my shoddy (but solidly made) box, than the concept.
So my suggestion for decent bass is to go for 12" paper PA drivers, and let them do all the bass and midrange, stick a tweeter on top (IIRC it crosses about 4kHz).
IMO bass is about moving air, and while I have nice bass from 8" and 6" speakers, the impact from 12" is most satisfying! Cheap too!
They have a simple crossover with an air-core inductor, and a motorola bullet type tweeter for the top, in some old PA speaker cabinets with some polyester stuffing and a 'port'.
I do EQ the signal to it, quite a bit, actually, and power each with well powered 150W Maplin amps, the 'port' chuffs a bit on extremely low notes, but that's more my shoddy (but solidly made) box, than the concept.
So my suggestion for decent bass is to go for 12" paper PA drivers, and let them do all the bass and midrange, stick a tweeter on top (IIRC it crosses about 4kHz).
IMO bass is about moving air, and while I have nice bass from 8" and 6" speakers, the impact from 12" is most satisfying! Cheap too!