Ronion,
You now have 6 new messages into your inbox, 3 different genre files per driver attached one message and last message have the three reference clips that is level matched which was released at post 60. Have best listening and nice if you can take decision before deadline and make a vote at the above horserace : )
You now have 6 new messages into your inbox, 3 different genre files per driver attached one message and last message have the three reference clips that is level matched which was released at post 60. Have best listening and nice if you can take decision before deadline and make a vote at the above horserace : )
When you cross over high around 400 to 500 Hz, the limit will be thermal dissipation. The drivers that have a high thermal rating are the ones with a vented pole piece - this includes TC9 TG9 and 10F. I haven't looked at the others in detail but I think these can take sustained 60w. However, Barleywater has applied 1kW short bursts to the TC9 above 500Hz with no damage. I have personally tested the TC9 at 75watts (250Hz) continuous for 2 minutes with no damage. They are quite rugged little guys. I would imagine the alloy framed 10F can probably take more.
Thank you guys--my vote has been added. I had a hard time between 3 of the drivers, but I think mine is the right decision based on my particular listening conditions: modified German Maestro GMP160. They are a little thin based on modifications but line up fairly well as far as my home system goes for tonal balance.
The time is nigh - please lay down your cards
Hi Jay,
We are close to the reveal here and it would be good to get your driver assignments and final picks in a txt file before 2pm GMT tomorrow. I have a hard time following all your discussions and permutations.
Thanks,
X
Yes, but the top performer does unfortunately exist. The more I listen [to different segment] the more it shows its superiority by never scored less than "one of the best".
I'm a bit disappointed, because I have heard B80 in real life and I expect 10F [which I have never heard] to perform above that.
Oh yes. With better headphone/speakers I can hear more details that can give positive or negative score to a driver. Positive trait is the micro room reverberation. Negative trait is some kind of weird behavior, a distortion or something. Two drivers keep showing weird behavior when heard through better headphone, and those behavior was not observed when using cheap headphone.
My speakers is better. It can show emotion. It can show performer quality [better singer or better musician]. I think these are micro details. I remembered I had a goosebumps when I heard Norah Jones vocal through 10F and my speaker. I have tried to "feel" for the same experience using my Senn in all of the track with clip1 which have a little vocal at the end and it appeared F was "closer"
But my speaker has the trait to hide "distortions" or is it because of the low distortion of the speaker itself. When using my Senn, many drivers have distortion, but the distortion will be gone when listened through the speakers. I think it is my ears cannot accept headphones...
This has consequence... because my favorite in my first minute impression was thought to be 10F but the "distortion" was too high that I thought it was too bad to be true because I believe 10F is a very low distortion driver.
And what I have learnt to be true is that with headphone I can feel that the loudest the passage, the more "distortion", or the more hurt I feel with my ears. The reference is the extreme example. Because it is the loudest, it appears to have a huge distortion and I don't like to hear them.
So yes, different headphone/speakers can change preference.
Hi Jay,
We are close to the reveal here and it would be good to get your driver assignments and final picks in a txt file before 2pm GMT tomorrow. I have a hard time following all your discussions and permutations.
Thanks,
X
Thanks for waiting for me
I don't know what to say, I think this is a very strange round. I have a feeling that something is "not right". There is something that makes "inconsistency" between relative quality between drivers. I'm expecting that wherever or whatever or whichever clip or segment that you listen to, the character of the drivers shouldn't change very much. But here it changes rapidly depends on what we are listening to.
I just listened to the last clip [clip3] and while I think this is the hardest clip, I feel that my prediction changed with this clip and this is for the first time I don't think that what I have preferred so far is a B80. It could be 10F or worse TG9. While they sound similar ["TG9" vs "10F"], they sound very different. And it is just very strange that my favorite one seemed "less defined" than the other one. It is just unacceptable if I have picked TG9 over 10F. But here I heard each of them had their own strength. This is crazy.
I wish I can quickly fire my speaker tonight. Then I will listen to the jazz clip [my preferred music genre]. Then whichever I like best in that setup, that is my favorite...
If my favorite turn out to be TG9, I will seriously blame the Harsch crossover
I do honestly think that this crossover is "wrong"... since more than ten years ago...
One thing we can all agree on is that we all like good sound!
Probably all of the drivers in all of these comparison tests can sound good. All of these drivers are so similar there's no clear winner.
I think we've determined, as a group, the best of breed for this size driver. Not a sole winner but a group of great choices. Perhaps this group represents the best currently available?
Interestingly, having purchased and enjoyed the little Vifa hasn't squelched my desire for other drivers. Tho it can be considered smoother than my collection of Fostex, Radio Shack, NSB, 69 Cent wonders, Dayton, various Tangbands, etc..., I've taken out my collection of larger drivers (6 - 8") and feel they do things a bit differently, both better and worse, compared to the Vifa.
And I greedily enjoy listening to music on all of the drivers in my ever growing collection.
Probably all of the drivers in all of these comparison tests can sound good. All of these drivers are so similar there's no clear winner.
I think we've determined, as a group, the best of breed for this size driver. Not a sole winner but a group of great choices. Perhaps this group represents the best currently available?
Interestingly, having purchased and enjoyed the little Vifa hasn't squelched my desire for other drivers. Tho it can be considered smoother than my collection of Fostex, Radio Shack, NSB, 69 Cent wonders, Dayton, various Tangbands, etc..., I've taken out my collection of larger drivers (6 - 8") and feel they do things a bit differently, both better and worse, compared to the Vifa.
And I greedily enjoy listening to music on all of the drivers in my ever growing collection.
Thanks for waiting for me
I don't know what to say, I think this is a very strange round. I have a feeling that something is "not right". There is something that makes "inconsistency" between relative quality between drivers. I'm expecting that wherever or whatever or whichever clip or segment that you listen to, the character of the drivers shouldn't change very much. But here it changes rapidly depends on what we are listening to.
I just listened to the last clip [clip3] and while I think this is the hardest clip, I feel that my prediction changed with this clip and this is for the first time I don't think that what I have preferred so far is a B80. It could be 10F or worse TG9. While they sound similar ["TG9" vs "10F"], they sound very different. And it is just very strange that my favorite one seemed "less defined" than the other one. It is just unacceptable if I have picked TG9 over 10F. But here I heard each of them had their own strength. This is crazy.
I wish I can quickly fire my speaker tonight. Then I will listen to the jazz clip [my preferred music genre]. Then whichever I like best in that setup, that is my favorite...
If my favorite turn out to be TG9, I will seriously blame the Harsch crossover
Jay,
Part of the problem is that you seem so sure of your driver assignments that it causes you consternation of accidentally picking the cheaper, therefore, must be inferior driver to a more expensive, therefore, must be better driver dilemma. What makes you so certain that you have the assignments correct? Perhaps you should pick what you think sounds best and let that cards fall where they may? You may be pleasantly surprised, although hard for me to say because you are all over the place.
To me there was a clear winner. It was close between three drivers, but I know the qualities I like in my drivers. What I like is highly subjective so take what I say with a grain of salt. Once I've narrowed down the choices the three deciding factors I use are:
1.) How natural is the overall tone. (Does it sound real)
2.) How well are the background sounds resolved. (Do the nuances get lost)
3.) How well are the high frequencies handled. (Is it flat, tilted up, or tilted down)
1.) How natural is the overall tone. (Does it sound real)
2.) How well are the background sounds resolved. (Do the nuances get lost)
3.) How well are the high frequencies handled. (Is it flat, tilted up, or tilted down)
You replace the original pad (that creates a large spike at 9k) with a thin foam cover and a couple of 2" bandage gauze. That helps a lot! audio blog: German Maestro GMP 160
Post mod here: audio blog: Headphone Frequency Response Repository
I have mentioned during previous round that TC9 could probably be the winner in the final round. It means I'm not biased by the price. But I'm "biased" by what I have heard, which is the relative sound between TG9 and 10F, as I have heard in second round [which used LR2 crossover btw].
With this round, it is super easy to hear differences between drivers, but there is no consistency from segment/clip to segment/clip, so the ranking is harder. As if the crossover has prevented the drivers from showing their "true" color.
I think I'm not at all expecting the assignment to be correct, but at least I expect that the assignment should not change with different clip.
Because for so long, may be from experience or assumption, I believe the character of an electronics should not change much with different input signal, that's why we can accept sinusoidal wave to represent musical wave, isn't it?
I know this is hard to explain but I know I will bring this as a homework.
I have used only one clip reference on round one, because I believe whatever the music, the character will not be different. In this round fortunately, my preferred driver always be part of the best of the five. So may be nothing is wrong at all?
It's just silly that....
that extraordinary vocal that I have heard only from 10F in the second round [I have never heard such an exotic vocal even from other drivers in my life] is not here with "expected" driver.
May be because I haven't used my speakers to hear that sound, but I could hear a "hint" of that vocal sound only with F, which is not the expected driver.
It's just silly that....
I could agree with People's choice in round two and may be one. It seems that voters have good ears and similar "taste". Starting with round three it started to look strange, even more strange in this round. I know that "because all drivers are very good" is sufficient for most people as the answer for that question, but not for me. Even the "people prefer the flattest frequency response" couldn't be true anymore in this round.
The XO is at 350Hz and is 2nd order on the full range and 4th order on the woofer so there shouldn't be too much influence on full range's character above 350Hz. A symmetric LR2 will have more woofer coloration on the sound above 350Hz than the Harsch - however back in round 2 the woofer was the dual driver XKi 6th order bandpass and XO was symmetric LR4 at 225Hz. So there was more "full range" to hear I suppose.
Was it "Come away with me" that is the exotic vocal you refer to hearing on the 10F?
Was it "Come away with me" that is the exotic vocal you refer to hearing on the 10F?
Yes.
Yes, and may be the opposite also true: if FR were all very flat, the best sounding driver would be the one with the least non linear distortion
Actually, listening for "fatigue" [which may represent non linear distortion] is my "ultimate" way to qualify sounds. I would listen for one clip for sufficiently long period and try to "hear the message" in term of enjoyment, boredom and fatigue [feeling of being disturbed]. Best is sleeping with the music on.
I'm attaching a TXT, but as long as I haven't heard through my speakers, it couldn't be final
In general, my prediction is 99% similar to Irribeo's prediction [ScanSpeak would win
].My preference has not changed, especially the top and the bottom. But the other drivers had moved up and down depends on the clip [especially D that I feel "worst" with certain clip but best with certain clip].
Going back to my amplifier building...