The Ultras got schlepped them back into the living room a few days ago when we heard about John. They were unused for a while mostly due to a major change in floor plan.
Summer is generally headphone listening here as there are window air conditioners and their droning makes listening to the stereo kind of tough.
But hooked up the Ultra's in spite of the noise. Been streaming Space Station Soma and Groove Salad over the past few days. Bassy music and the Ultras do nicely together.
The room has wooden floors that resonate. It happens with all speakers and the cure seems to be the rubber and cork vibration pads. They are available in plumbing supply stores or online for very little money and seem to do a better job than the pure rubber isolators. At least in my room.
Put them under the Ultras and it's a nice improvement. There's still lots of bass but it's gained a great deal of control. It's not surprising, they've helped the other speakers that have been in that room, too.
If you have suspended wood floors this really works well. A fast, fun, inexpensive tweak for a fast, fun, inexpensive speaker.
Summer is generally headphone listening here as there are window air conditioners and their droning makes listening to the stereo kind of tough.
But hooked up the Ultra's in spite of the noise. Been streaming Space Station Soma and Groove Salad over the past few days. Bassy music and the Ultras do nicely together.
The room has wooden floors that resonate. It happens with all speakers and the cure seems to be the rubber and cork vibration pads. They are available in plumbing supply stores or online for very little money and seem to do a better job than the pure rubber isolators. At least in my room.
Put them under the Ultras and it's a nice improvement. There's still lots of bass but it's gained a great deal of control. It's not surprising, they've helped the other speakers that have been in that room, too.
If you have suspended wood floors this really works well. A fast, fun, inexpensive tweak for a fast, fun, inexpensive speaker.
OK, a stupid question that I'll answer for myself this evening but I'm going to ask anyway.
Is there a proper way to place the Manzi/Ultras with regard to the position of the tweeter? Should the tweeter be towards the inside or the outside?
I'll move them around tonight to listen for differences but I thought there may be somebody here that might know if there's actually a good reason for one position vs another.
Is there a proper way to place the Manzi/Ultras with regard to the position of the tweeter? Should the tweeter be towards the inside or the outside?
I'll move them around tonight to listen for differences but I thought there may be somebody here that might know if there's actually a good reason for one position vs another.
This 15 year old thread highlights two of John's designs, the Manzanita and the Ultra. Both are great DIY projects.
But those of us that got to the Lone Star Audio Fest were able to hear John's other creations. He did amazing things with odd speaker drivers and weird parts. And his other creations would use parts that weren't necessarily inexpensive ... and he used those parts very well.
There's a thread of the speakers he brought to the Lone Star fest on audioroundtable.com. It's worth checking out just to get an idea of how much time and effort he put into his designs.
https://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=23448&start=0&
But those of us that got to the Lone Star Audio Fest were able to hear John's other creations. He did amazing things with odd speaker drivers and weird parts. And his other creations would use parts that weren't necessarily inexpensive ... and he used those parts very well.
There's a thread of the speakers he brought to the Lone Star fest on audioroundtable.com. It's worth checking out just to get an idea of how much time and effort he put into his designs.
https://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=23448&start=0&
An agricultural build, but I’m using up scrap and learning to use a router. Also, the crossover is screwed together so I can play with different value bits.
I’m seriously impressed and they are just sat on the floor. I need to find something to use as stands and play with set up. The final build with have built in legs like a lot of the others on here.
Oh and despite not being an easy load, my 8W SET amp is driving them a little too loud at the halfway mark on the volume.
Thanks Pano and I’m raising my glass to John as I listen smiling.
I’m seriously impressed and they are just sat on the floor. I need to find something to use as stands and play with set up. The final build with have built in legs like a lot of the others on here.
Oh and despite not being an easy load, my 8W SET amp is driving them a little too loud at the halfway mark on the volume.
Thanks Pano and I’m raising my glass to John as I listen smiling.
Attachments
After some time (we had a heat wave) I had a listening session again yesterday, with the Manzies of course, and thought of John inevitably.
@barryso it is an interesting question regarding the position of the "tweeter". Normally they should be farther away because of the runtime correction. I don't know why they "must" be placed inside here, but I've only seen pictures where they were inside. At first I set mine up "wrong" too, but they weren't even finished at the time. I will test today.
@barryso it is an interesting question regarding the position of the "tweeter". Normally they should be farther away because of the runtime correction. I don't know why they "must" be placed inside here, but I've only seen pictures where they were inside. At first I set mine up "wrong" too, but they weren't even finished at the time. I will test today.
Well, well, well... test done, but if I was hoping for a clear result, then I was wrong
As Pano wrote, with the tweeters on the outside there is a broader soundstage, but sometimes some instruments "stick" to the speaker instead of being somewhere "in the air". However, with this setup the music is more refined, there is more air (for me at least).
With the tweeters on the inside the music is more direct, everything is more in the foreground, it is louder. But - I miss some fineness, or is it just some polite restraint what I miss?
At the end... well, well, well... I really don't know
Life could be so easy with clear yes or no, but there must always be a maybe, a what if... great
It would be great others would do this experiment too.
As Pano wrote, with the tweeters on the outside there is a broader soundstage, but sometimes some instruments "stick" to the speaker instead of being somewhere "in the air". However, with this setup the music is more refined, there is more air (for me at least).
With the tweeters on the inside the music is more direct, everything is more in the foreground, it is louder. But - I miss some fineness, or is it just some polite restraint what I miss?
At the end... well, well, well... I really don't know
Life could be so easy with clear yes or no, but there must always be a maybe, a what if... great
It would be great others would do this experiment too.
I’ve had mine on for about 8hours today.
Not perfect positioning but I at least know how high the stands should be. I think I need to tune them as the tweeter seems a little forward - well the bass seems a little further back. But on acoustic guitar and voice stuff they are fabulous. Really present. i was surprised that on my Pass F6 I really had to turn the volume up. I’m back on the frugal horns and they seem muddy in comparison.
The front room needs a layout tweak to accommodate, and a with a low WAF they need a quality build, but I think I might have won Mrs Al over on the sound front. The cat approves…
Not perfect positioning but I at least know how high the stands should be. I think I need to tune them as the tweeter seems a little forward - well the bass seems a little further back. But on acoustic guitar and voice stuff they are fabulous. Really present. i was surprised that on my Pass F6 I really had to turn the volume up. I’m back on the frugal horns and they seem muddy in comparison.
The front room needs a layout tweak to accommodate, and a with a low WAF they need a quality build, but I think I might have won Mrs Al over on the sound front. The cat approves…
My version of the Manzis are the 2007 version. Put them together with the original 27TDFC tweeter after hearing John demo them at the Lone Star show.
Turns out the cap and the resistor weren't the right values. Why that happened escapes me now as they were assembled 15 years ago.
Updated the crossovers today to the correct values and they sound just like the one's John had at the show all those years back. They produce a lot more bass now. Yup, there's a lot of John in them their baffles ... they had me laughing out loud. It's not just the quantity of bass, it's the texture and grace of the bass coming from that small open baffle. Before he demoed them he said "you know that open baffles don't make any bass". He used that line for years.
They are setup poorly in the basement so there's no telling what they'll do in a proper setting with better gear.
Sure, the mids are recessed. The 27TDFC was never the intended tweeter and couldn't quite do the entire spectrum needed in this design. But it's still laugh out loud wonderful.
Always meant to install the new tweeter and crossover. Did some searching this week and some of the parts are suffering from supply chain issues. The crossover from the Ultra could be used by changing out two resistors and the tweeter inductor but that would put the Ultras out of commission. So for now it's the original recipe.
Somehow having the original design is fitting. The tweeter wasn't really the right part for the design yet John made it work as well as possible. He was really good at doing that.
Respect.
Turns out the cap and the resistor weren't the right values. Why that happened escapes me now as they were assembled 15 years ago.
Updated the crossovers today to the correct values and they sound just like the one's John had at the show all those years back. They produce a lot more bass now. Yup, there's a lot of John in them their baffles ... they had me laughing out loud. It's not just the quantity of bass, it's the texture and grace of the bass coming from that small open baffle. Before he demoed them he said "you know that open baffles don't make any bass". He used that line for years.
They are setup poorly in the basement so there's no telling what they'll do in a proper setting with better gear.
Sure, the mids are recessed. The 27TDFC was never the intended tweeter and couldn't quite do the entire spectrum needed in this design. But it's still laugh out loud wonderful.
Always meant to install the new tweeter and crossover. Did some searching this week and some of the parts are suffering from supply chain issues. The crossover from the Ultra could be used by changing out two resistors and the tweeter inductor but that would put the Ultras out of commission. So for now it's the original recipe.
Somehow having the original design is fitting. The tweeter wasn't really the right part for the design yet John made it work as well as possible. He was really good at doing that.
Respect.
Give the tweeters more time to settle in. They seem to mellow as they get used.
The woofer will likely change a bit, too. It's a fun ride.
Ultras this time ...
When the tweeters are towards the outside of the Ultras the presentation seems brighter sounding. Imaging isn't as precise.
When the tweeters are towards the inside the imagining gets a lot sharper and the soundstage seems deeper. Textures seem better but that might just be the improved imaging. The presentation is also a bit less lively.
It's a much bigger difference than expected.
When the tweeters are towards the outside of the Ultras the presentation seems brighter sounding. Imaging isn't as precise.
When the tweeters are towards the inside the imagining gets a lot sharper and the soundstage seems deeper. Textures seem better but that might just be the improved imaging. The presentation is also a bit less lively.
It's a much bigger difference than expected.
Been thinking about John and visiting his room at the LSAF over the years.
He wanted to present a great sounding room without folks having to spend big money. His room, like several at the show, was about value. And great sound.
When John first started exhibiting his creations they were usually one offs that were built for his amusement. They were a way of him showing off his technical skills.
In those years, before he offered the speakers for sale, he'd tweak the crossovers repeatedly over the weekend and get the speakers sounding better and better. He was creating the perfect speaker for whatever room he was in. We'd all visit his room Friday, Saturday and Sunday as the crossovers got better and better over the weekend. They started out great on Friday night and just got better and better.
Going to John's room several times during the show for the crossover updates became a ritual for many of us.
Once he was selling his speakers he couldn't do that anymore. The speakers just had the crossover he'd built for them. Yet even without the custom tweaks he always had one of the best rooms in the show.
Great memories.
He wanted to present a great sounding room without folks having to spend big money. His room, like several at the show, was about value. And great sound.
When John first started exhibiting his creations they were usually one offs that were built for his amusement. They were a way of him showing off his technical skills.
In those years, before he offered the speakers for sale, he'd tweak the crossovers repeatedly over the weekend and get the speakers sounding better and better. He was creating the perfect speaker for whatever room he was in. We'd all visit his room Friday, Saturday and Sunday as the crossovers got better and better over the weekend. They started out great on Friday night and just got better and better.
Going to John's room several times during the show for the crossover updates became a ritual for many of us.
Once he was selling his speakers he couldn't do that anymore. The speakers just had the crossover he'd built for them. Yet even without the custom tweaks he always had one of the best rooms in the show.
Great memories.
So true about tuning the crossovers. John liked to claim (with a twinkle in is eye) that he had an unfair advantage in that he would tune the crossover to the demo room at audio shows. Not many others were able to do that. And it's super important to do so, IME even more with open baffle because of its interactions with the room and front wall.
John would work and work on a crossover in his garage, then take the speakers to his office, into the living room, where ever he could test them in different acoustics. Not only did he teach us that crossovers can make or break a speaker, but that the crossover should be tuned in the room. That is why it has been stressed in this thread that you need to start with the default crossover and then tune it to your room.
John would work and work on a crossover in his garage, then take the speakers to his office, into the living room, where ever he could test them in different acoustics. Not only did he teach us that crossovers can make or break a speaker, but that the crossover should be tuned in the room. That is why it has been stressed in this thread that you need to start with the default crossover and then tune it to your room.
Been away for a while, and coming back here to read that John has left us...
It makes me sincerely sad. But his legacy have left us with this amazing design that keeps on evolving. I believe that John is happy to have given us so much joy with these speakers, and that they live on.
I have been preoccupied with my work as an ILS engineer at a company that makes helicopter UAVs, so my speaker project has been suffering. But now, I have lastly finished a few things. First, I have put them on Sonic Designs sorbothane feets, to prevent vibrations entering the floor. Second, I have made covers for the elements. I milled wood rings, glued on magnets and fabric. It came out quite nice :
It makes me sincerely sad. But his legacy have left us with this amazing design that keeps on evolving. I believe that John is happy to have given us so much joy with these speakers, and that they live on.
I have been preoccupied with my work as an ILS engineer at a company that makes helicopter UAVs, so my speaker project has been suffering. But now, I have lastly finished a few things. First, I have put them on Sonic Designs sorbothane feets, to prevent vibrations entering the floor. Second, I have made covers for the elements. I milled wood rings, glued on magnets and fabric. It came out quite nice :
